QGRY 1500 (EMD SW1500)

[ironstef70]

So I am getting started with the following project:

QGRY 1500 (link)

I have gathered most relevant parts: an Ajin/OMI SW1500 frame, (what I believe is) an Alco models shell, Miniatures by Eric brass details, then some more detailing parts for the detailing of the radiators and fan on the front end of the body.

I may also add a functionning strobe (the prototype don't has it, but is very common on switchers, and can easily be a temporary add-on in real life), and there's already a hole trough the cab, as the horn must be relocated. 

Still, I first got started with fitting the diecast frame to the brass walkway, and made openings in the body for the radiators and fan.

QGRY1500 start by Ironstef70, sur Flickr

Then I must insulate the motor and wheels, lubrificate the drivetrain, and paint the frame, once I have soldered the lateral air tanks.

I have found interesting treads about previous similar projects, which shall help me in this project:

www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?p=618905

dieseldetailer.proboards.com/thread/1122/sw1500-project?page=2

forum.aorailroad.com/t/emd-switcher-radiator-cores/855

Here is a picture of a recent project: CN5453. Just a Standard Ajin/OMI SD40-2 custom painted and full DCC/sound. Only minor modifications were the ditch lights, and all modifications related to the insulation of these older brass diesels:

CN 5354 SD40-2_3 by Ironstef70, sur Flickr

CN 5354 SD40-2_1 by Ironstef70, sur Flickr

CN 5354 SD40-2_2 by Ironstef70, sur Flickr

Stephane

[dekon]

Nice!

[icghogger]

Good Luck, Stephane, and keep us posted!

[big train james]

Hi Stephane,
That A&O Railroad forum thread is about my cad for the radiator cores. I can probably help you with info on the radiator cores for your model. Actually I can probably answer a fair amount of questions about the sw1500 in general. I've spent a lot of time learning about them for my project.

There's some additional discussion about the radiators and more in this other DD thread.  You will find a link to a dropbox folder in that thread, but I've since deleted the folder.  Depending on what you need, I can load up another folder and send you a link.  

Here's another link to a thread on a different forum, where I have some photos of the 3d print of the radiator core area.  

Let me know if I can help,
Jim

[ironstef70]

Wow, and this is what I love about these forums. It's not about social media ego, but about how we can share knowledge and tips and achieve amazing projects we could not do without the right information.

Well James, it would be fantastic if I could purchase the following radiators (2) from you (I believe you call it the short and medium core: third one in first picture of the following link) so that I can fit them inside my shell:

forum.aorailroad.com/t/emd-switcher-radiator-cores/855

I don't know much about 3D printing, but are you saying that I can upload the drawings so someone could have those printed?

Stephane

[sbcarshops]

Great Introduction! and a wealth of information here, I definitely will be following! and the other models are suburb!

[big train james]

Oct 18, 2019 11:02:48 GMT -5 ironstef70 said:

.......I don't know much about 3D printing, but are you saying that I can upload the drawings so someone could have those printed?

Stephane

Hi Stephane,


In theory, yes, files could be generated from cad that could be uploaded and printed. But we'll come back to that in a minute.

I think what I was really suggesting was that I could provide you with information in the way of photos, drawings, dimensions, and general knowledge, that would aid in your modeling of these units. I can do that for certain. If you want to pursue having 3d prints made for the radiator cores, then there are some things to consider.

My primary concern is that I am not sure that the 3d model would successfully print in HO scale. The model is developed for O scale, and there are a lot of elements that are already sized (or oversized) to the minimum Shapeways specs, for printing in O scale. There may be issues with scaling the items down to 1:87. I'm also concerned that my 3d model, which is drawn specifically in the context of installation on an Atlas model, will fit your model by a different manufacturer. Lastly, my model is developed with a very specific application in mind, namely to have the radiator core "open" to allow for sound penetration from the speaker placed below it. Modifications would need to be made to accommodate the same idea in HO, or to change the model to a solid core surface if sound wasn't a consideration.

Keeping those factors in mind, if you want to give the 3d print a try, we can take a shot at it. There are some logistical issues having to do with who will be doing the printing. If you have access to a good printer (by good, I mean high resolution resin, not any sort of fdm printer), I can send you the stl file and you can give it a go. If you don't have access to a printer, then it will probably need to go through a printing bureau like Shapeways. I can post the model to Shapeways myself. I will not be making the model available for general sale on the Shapeways site. If there is a way to make it available for purchase directly by you, then that would probably be ideal. If not, I will have prints done and sent to me, and I will forward them on to you. There will be an extra layer of shipping cost in that case, but I don't think it will be extravagantly more than the cost to ship directly to you from Shapeways.

Some modifications will need to be made to the 3d model for HO, and to more closely match the prototype QGRY 1500. See the attached photo.




1. The first change will be to flip the cores end for end, as the QGRY 1500 has the less common arrangement of medium to the front and short core to the rear. The cores need to be flipped in the 3d model or the headers will be at the wrong ends.

2. The second big item is to fill in the openings in the tops of the cores, that I have filled with etched screen. Unless you want to leave the cores open and use a screen. But I think that may be difficult in the smaller scale, and I'm not sure if it will be successful. The core "material" is Plano HO Apex walkway material.

3. Presuming the cores are filled in, I would add the bars that span across the top (and technically the bottom as well, but nobody sees that) of the medium core. If the cores are left open, I would use wire for the bars, as they will almost certainly not survive printing and support removal, let alone shipping.

4. I would move the brackets at the sides of the cores, that seem to act as positioning guides, to match the proto locations.

5. Not indicated on the photo, but a discussion would need to be had about what sort of base is printed with the cores. It could be none at all, if there is already something for the cores to sit on. Or a flange could be added, but I would need some sort of specs of the existing model to size it properly.

That's it for now. Let me know how and if you want to proceed. Maybe we move the detailed discussion about logistics to email or messages.

Jim

[big train james]

Having some issues getting the photo to embed in my post. I'll try and get it straightened out.

I see that others are posting from Flickr with success.  I tried the "insert image" button on the toolbar, which didn't load the photo.  And I pasted the link from Flickr into my post, and that didn't load the photo.  Anyone care to enlighten me on the proper steps.  

Thanks,
Jim

[EMDX6043]

While you're in Flickr, right-click the desired image then click on "view page info". In the "meta box", scroll down to "og:image". It should end in .jpg...copy/paste that link into the "insert image" box. That's how I do it and it works every time but I'm not sure why this stuff has to be so complicated on this forum. (Test shot shown below)

If that's your account on Flickr, choose a photo that's set to Public as well...I don't think trying to use private photos works.

[big train james]

Thanks Dave, that worked. It's not an elegant solution, by any means. And apparently the "share photostream" button is useless for this purpose. But it's here now.

By the way, the photo appears to post properly even though it has a private setting.

Jim

[ironstef70]

Jim, let me think about it for a day or two, as I don't want to waste your time. I really appreciate the effort and options given in your reply above, and from the above picture, I will try to figure out if I can kitbash the frame myself. Regarding the top openings in the radiators, no, sound is not a critical issue as it will be heard from the fan opening anyways. You will see what I mean below. But mucho gracias for your help: it really matters.

In the meantime, here are a few pictures of the progress.

I have completed the works on the underframe and drivetrain. We now have insulated wheels, motor, and strengthened shafts. Gearboxes have been lubrificated, then truck frames have insulation from wheel flanges, then painted. But I am not too satisfied with the fuel tank dimensions, and I may grind the bottom, and glue (epoxy) a carefully shaped solid iron piece underneath. It shall be much closer to the prototype, then will also add traction weight. But besides this modification, I am moving up to detailing the body. I have just rebuilt the nose, and I must say I really like the 3D effect from the louvers openings. I can't wait to see it painted with the silver fan behind. Louvers and fan are fine laser cut stainless parts from KV Models, which I must say is quality material :

kvmodels.com/kv-113h/

Now I will have to scratchbuild all the cabin floor, as the cab shell is empty, and would show the rear truck pivot through the windows. I also need soldering work for the ditch lights, bell, horn, and plows. To be continued next weekend.

Custom fit by Ironstef70, sur Flickr

Drivetrain works by Ironstef70, sur Flickr

SW1500 nose by Ironstef70, sur Flickr

Louvers by Ironstef70, sur Flickr

Stephane

[big train james]

Hi Stephane,
A couple of notes, based on your last post:

1. You're not wasting my time. The cad work required to address the points I raised previously will take a small amount of time, as everything is already drawn. It just needs to be rearranged, something which cad is very effective at.

2. If you want to address the fuel tank, I can probably help with that as well. Same deal as with the radiator cores. I can furnish specs for your build or we can try to adapt my cad for an O scale tank for HO instead.




Mounting bracket details would probably be simplest to implement from the Cannon kit.  End sheets could probably be printed, if not they could be cut from stock.  The scalloped bottom profile and faceted tank sides probably aren't necessary, but they are accurate.  And since I'm kind of one of those guys, and because more detail is achievable in O scale, they are in the model.  There are a couple of plates missing from the top of the tank at the moment (I didn't realize they were there), and filler tubes, sight glasses, and tank-side gauges would need to be addressed.

3.  As an fyi, the air reservoirs aren't quite the right type, at least based on your photos.  They look like a 1st gen type of reservoir, as might be found on an earlier switcher.  Early switcher tanks were hung off the frame by those straps.  The proper tanks for the sw1500 are the standard EMD 2nd gen tanks found on late gp35's through at least the sd60's, and are suspended off the frame by brackets at the ends of the tanks.  You might consider an aftermarket part for this detail, I know Cannon offers tanks as does either Details West or Detail Associates.




4.  Similar to the air reservoirs, the screen for the radiator fan is also an earlier 1st gen type, with the boxy housing with the inset chicken wire mesh.  It makes sense if they borrowed some detailing from earlier era locos.  The proper fan guard on the later switchers is a welded grid composed of ~¼" rod in a 4" x 2" pattern.  The best solution I know of for the guard is to go with the KV version.  The KV version is still a bit off, it is 14 x 22 openings versus 14 x 28 for the prototype (the fan guard is 57" x 57", 14 x 28 grid equaling 56" each way, with a ½" around the outside before the bars bend back to the face of the loco), so the shape of the openings is a bit squarer than it should be.  But I presume that's a concession to scale, and it's the best option available.

All for now.  Let me know if I'm overdoing it with the info.  I could talk about sw1500's for a long time, I'm kind of invested.  If it's more than you want or need, let me know and I'll be less noisy.

Jim

[ironstef70]

Jim, your input is very appreciated, so don't worry for the extra details, even in O scale. That gives me an opportunity to push my own boundaries in regard to modeling skills.
Busy work week away from home, but I will soon let you know about the options I will choose for the fan, radiator and tank.

Stephane

[ironstef70]

OK, back on the work bench a bit yesterday, I was able to make correction to the front grille. I have cut the above with a worn Dremel disk (smaller in diameter: I always keep some handy for tight jobs) and soldered the KV from the stainless kit.
Indeed it looks much more accurate, just like those above the radiators, which I have pre-bend and fit in place until it also gets soldered.

Sorry, I also made progress in rebuilding the pilots and adding plows, but I deleted pictures by mistake. More to come...

Jim, it it is possible, I am definitely interested by the radiator cores. Now as answers to your very first post, I would simply have them 3D-printed as full cores with screening patterns on top. In HO scale, I don't think it would matter much, and then I can simply cheat the effect with minor weathering (adding washed out black paint in the voids at the end, which would make them looking like openings. It would be even best since that would hide the wires, speaker and other irrelevant stuff underneath.

for the other elements, I will probably give them a try myself. The air tank supports I can probably "roughly" duplicate using squared brass tubing. For the tank, I'll give it a try with a shaped piece of steel and epoxy. I really want to keep the original diecast current one which is best fitted to the frame. Second option (which may make better sence) would be to build a second bottom end of fuel tank from brass sheets, then fill with a lead block before gluing to the current on with epoxy. The latter option would probably avoid lots of sanding.

Still, I don't know if you feel like handling the conversion job (to HO) for the radiators vs Shapeways. I sure can fist give a try to your CAD drawing and try to find a local which could have them printed first. But as mentioned, the radiator frames would have to be filled out to solid, with just the grille patters above.
I am not in such a hurry, I have all winter, and several other projects on the bench.

I will wait for your instructions for uploading the radiator file. Just PM me.

Again, thank you for your precious help.

Stephane

[big train james]

Stephane,
I will modify the cad to reflect the prototype core arrangement, as well as fill in and model the core surface. We'll sort out the printing after that.

Jim

[ironstef70]

Here is the picture of the recent works. During the process, I have totally dismantled the end pilots, then rebuilt all one step at a time. They shall now be much stronger. Hence why the handrails are missing. I will reinstall them once I have finished the frame works. Ditch lights, and several more details must be installed, most of them scratchbuilt. 

Next to it is the wheel issue I've got. I have just purchased insulated Ajin wheels online, but those are 44" to scale, rather than 42" as required. If anyone can explain to me what is the purpose of 44" wheels, I'd like to know. I fist though they could have been O scale, but they are sold as HO axels.

Still, the plan is to have the 42" non insulated Ajin wheels (which I have accumulated over time) drilled (5/32") so they fit the Ajin axels, then have the "hearts" transferred. Maybe I'll use the empty 44" as a scrap metal load....

Plows, hoses, grilles on cab by Ironstef70, sur Flickr

S.

[ironstef70]

Oct 27, 2019 10:07:48 GMT -5 big train james said:

Stephane,
I will modify the cad to reflect the prototype core arrangement, as well as fill in and model the core surface. We'll sort out the printing after that.

Jim

Sounds great Jim. Looks like your CAD skills will be complementary to my brass crafting ones.

Stephane

[big train james]

I can only imagine the 44" wheels would have been for the OMI sd90 models. The prototypes had 45" wheels.

Jim

[big train james]

Suitable changes have been made to the cad model:








1.  The cores have been flipped end for end, so that the medium cores are toward the front of the locomotive, and the short core is toward the rear.  The boxy header housing is at the front of the radiator, while the exposed header is to the rear.

2.  The core surface has been filled in with entities meant to capture the appearance of the core fin structure, to mimic something like this photo from one of the IRM photo galleries:




3.  Any undercuts have been filled in, as thin areas like the panels on either side of the medium core, or the round bars over the top of the core, would never survive printing in HO scale.  The bars likely wouldn't even make it on an O scale print.  Realistically, these concessions won't be readily evident at the scale of the print.  

4.  The horizontal stiffeners on either side of the medium cores have been modified slightly to reflect photos, but this is subject to change.  The photo linked in the first post, of the engineer's side of the radiator, dated 2003, appears to have a single stiffener on each side of the core.  A much later picture (2015) found at this blog link indicates a medium core with two shorter stiffeners along the sides.  The split stiffeners are also a slightly different shape, and positioned slightly lower on the core side, so this change has been reflected as well.  The difference in cores isn't uncommon at all, as there are any number of combinations of details, for any number of replacement parts options, and all cores may not be replaced at the same time.  However, it's also possible that the loco was shopped between 2003 and 2015, and the cores were replaced in that interval.  Without photos of both sides at the same time, the situation is currently inconclusive.  Stephane can decide which version he prefers.

Jim

[ironstef70]

Hey Jim,

As discussed in a personal email, here is the best picture I have of this unit's radiator, from back in 2016 (likely not too long before Bunge grain purchased the FURX GP38). 

QGRY1500 (2016) by Ironstef70, sur Flickr

Indeed, just as shown in the blog you are referring to, it appears that, for the exterior anyways, we have medium core with two shorter stiffeners along the sides configuration. I am very comfortable with the assymetric configuration shown in your three cad drawings above, and if it is not too much supplemental efforts of editing the two different radiators (one mirror to the other), I would go with what you are showing. Otherwise, we could make it symetrical (shorter stiffeners on both sides) if that makes your life easier for editing. Having such an opportunity is already way beyond the level of accuracy I was expecting from the start, and I don't want to abuse of your time.

FYI, radiator bay dimensions are:   26mm Long x 20mm wide x 4mm thick (halfway across).

Also, I now have a Shapeways account (Ironstef70), so that will save both of us unnecessary time loss.

Speaking of the above picture, I just noticed that something looked familiar (left hand side in backgroud)...

AEX203420_16 by Ironstef70, sur Flickr

The pictures that inspired the rotten hopper project included the next one (all from the same location), and I completed that project in April 2017. It is the very first time that I notice that this railfan afternoon ended up being more inspirational that I first though it would be....

AEX203420_000 by Ironstef70, sur Flickr

Stephane