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Post by poweredby251 on Jul 29, 2012 0:46:42 GMT -5
I read somewhere, in either a book or article about FM, that IC had an order for 50 H-24-66 on the books, but canceled due to questions about FM's long term prospects.
John
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Post by MitchGDRMCo on Jul 29, 2012 21:41:41 GMT -5
Quite an oxymoron that, 50 units would have helped FMs situation in giving it an order to build and made it look better to other RRs.
I've heard of CP and UP ordered SD80MACs before changing those orders to the ill fated SD90-H, a true what could have been as the SD80 has so far proven to be quite reliable.
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dti406
Superintendent
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Post by dti406 on Jul 30, 2012 9:02:34 GMT -5
The DT&I GP38's #200-204 were a cancelled MEC order.
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gp30
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Post by gp30 on Jul 30, 2012 12:05:09 GMT -5
I may be mistaken, but I recall CSX cancelled an order for additional EMD SD60's for an order of GE C40-8W's due to problematic electrical issues with the SD50's & SD60's when they were new.
Kind of contradicts logical thinking because SD50's and SD60's dominated the B&O West End up until the late 90's when the AC's came on line. Don't recall hearing of problems in helper service.
Did they cancel a GP60 order? They bought three EMD lease units (6897-98-99) with the funky rounded cabs and never saw anymore.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2012 12:15:24 GMT -5
Quite an oxymoron that, 50 units would have helped FMs situation in giving it an order to build and made it look better to other RRs. I've heard of CP and UP ordered SD80MACs before changing those orders to the ill fated SD90-H, a true what could have been as the SD80 has so far proven to be quite reliable. Does this mean I can feasibly paint an 80MAC in dual flags scheme???
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Post by m a y o r 79 on Jul 30, 2012 12:26:04 GMT -5
I know of quite a few cancelled locomotive orders, actually: Milwaukee Road: 5 FP45's Actually the Milwaukee had FP45's they were numbered 1 -5 and made it into the 80's before they were scrapped. The Milwaukee did at one time have an order placed with EMD for the SD38-2 but changed them to SD40-2s. Not sure what the number series would have been. I'm sure there were other Milwaukee orders that were canceled as well.
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Post by Nick Lorusso on Jul 30, 2012 14:27:19 GMT -5
I know of quite a few cancelled locomotive orders, actually: Western Pacific: 10 GP30's8 SW1500's 10 GMKT: 12 GP35's WP never cancelled the GP30's the where ordered w/high-hoods and barrel lights on both ends. EMD couldn't complete the order, due to how late they were ordered in the GP30 production before they switched to the GP35, so WP received the very 1st GP35s built instead.
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Post by MitchGDRMCo on Jul 30, 2012 18:19:47 GMT -5
I've heard of CP and UP ordered SD80MACs before changing those orders to the ill fated SD90-H, a true what could have been as the SD80 has so far proven to be quite reliable. Does this mean I can feasibly paint an 80MAC in dual flags scheme??? Yup, you could use the SD9043 decal set too as I believe they would have been in the same number series. I do think tho that for the CP version you'll need the SD9043 cab with the low headlights and number boards to fit CP spec, UP wouldn't matter.
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Post by danielsokyrail on Jul 31, 2012 8:17:52 GMT -5
I know the Burlington Route had a similar situation to the WP. They ordered more gp30s but since it was late in the prouction they were delivered as GP35. I think they even had the gp30 internals.
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Post by Jack Napier on Aug 1, 2012 7:26:50 GMT -5
Actually the Milwaukee had FP45's they were numbered 1 -5 and made it into the 80's before they were scrapped. The Milwaukee did at one time have an order placed with EMD for the SD38-2 but changed them to SD40-2s. Not sure what the number series would have been. The order I listed was for five additional FP45's in 1970, numbered 6 through 10; they were cancelled after Amtrak was formed.
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Post by m a y o r 79 on Aug 2, 2012 12:27:46 GMT -5
ah, didnt realize they did that. Do you know if they changed them to something else or just outright canceled them?
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Post by along on Aug 2, 2012 13:35:58 GMT -5
The L&N also cancelled an order in 1975 for both 10 additional SD40-2's [3584-3593] and 10 new GP40-2's [3030-3039] due to a downturn in business at that time. They also looked at purchasing 30 additional U30C'S {1440-1469] for delivery in 1973 as well as 20 additional GP38-2's [4145-4164] also in 1973. Those other units were at the time felt to not be needed,a decision that came back to haunt the L&N in the late 70's during the coal boom and rush.
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Post by Randy Earle on Aug 2, 2012 18:14:00 GMT -5
Here's one of the Pittsburgh & West Virginia units. It's now on the Wheeling & Lake Erie.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2012 3:29:49 GMT -5
Does this mean I can feasibly paint an 80MAC in dual flags scheme??? Yup, you could use the SD9043 decal set too as I believe they would have been in the same number series. I do think tho that for the CP version you'll need the SD9043 cab with the low headlights and number boards to fit CP spec, UP wouldn't matter. I have an 80MAC in need of a new can so maybe there is an opportunity there... Sent from my GT-I9100 using proboards
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Post by MitchGDRMCo on Aug 3, 2012 3:42:32 GMT -5
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Post by Jack Napier on Aug 6, 2012 0:10:09 GMT -5
ah, didnt realize they did that. Do you know if they changed them to something else or just outright canceled them? I think they simply cancelled them. I also recall hearing the order for the FP45's was accompanied by an order for 9(?) SD45's. Both were cancelled since the Milwaukee had problems with the SD45's.
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Post by Jack Napier on Aug 6, 2012 0:13:18 GMT -5
If UP had taken delivery of the 35 SD80MAC's instead of canceling them when they absorbed the C&NW, I think they'd have found an ideal high horsepower locomotive for their network (after all, the C&NW planned on using them in coal service).
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Post by Jack Napier on Aug 6, 2012 0:24:31 GMT -5
Quite an oxymoron that, 50 units would have helped FMs situation in giving it an order to build and made it look better to other RRs. They probably would've been scrapped, traded in, repowered or slugged anyways. (a lot like the GE's and ALCO centuries they ordered later) Hmm...maybe we'd have seen some trainmasters in IC orange and white, albeit with engines cannabalized from retired E's and F's. Perhaps even mother-slug sets working the hump at Markham. ;D
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Post by MitchGDRMCo on Aug 6, 2012 1:04:28 GMT -5
If UP had taken delivery of the 35 SD80MAC's instead of canceling them when they absorbed the C&NW, I think they'd have found an ideal high horsepower locomotive for their network (after all, the C&NW planned on using them in coal service). Not to mention it would have steered UP more towards the SD80MAC vs the SD90 if that order had gone thru.
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Post by stillbre on Aug 24, 2012 21:50:52 GMT -5
You sure the EL order was for U23Bs? An EL friend of mine said EL had ordered B23-7s and GP38-2s but were cancelled when bankruptcy was filed in order to join Conrail. The orders may have been transferred to CR. It was my understanding that L&N ordered their U23Bs after acquiring the Monon units in the 1971 merger/takeover. After all, all the U23Bs came with 100% L&N-specified options....Gyralights with nose-mounted headlights and small fuel tanks. Someone asked if there was a SD35 order that was changed into GP35s but the L&N GP35s were purchased before the SD35s. L&N did go back to EMD for more SD35s but EMD sold them SD40s instead. I have also read that this additional order of SD35s was supposed to be more SDP35s set up with mid-train radio equipment. The cancelled L&N GP40-2 and SD40-2 orders were canceled by SCL who by 1975 had taken over L&N operations. Instead SCL transferred several worn out GP30s, SD35s, C420s, and C628s into L&N ownership. SCL did try to get L&N to purchase SD45-2s but L&N felt that 3000hp was as high as they needed to go. I believe the cancelled GP38-2 order for L&N was actually transferred to the Georgia Group roads instead of canceled. Clinchfield had begun talks with EMD to order I believe 20 or 25 SD40T-2s but again SCL stepped in and decided that the radiator modification that railfans call tunnel motors were too expensive so cancelled the order. Clinchfield instead got standard SD40-2s. The general rumor was the CSX cancelled their second SD60 order because they were unhappy with their performance but I believe actually it was because EMD was backlogged so they switched to GE who could get them C40-8Ws faster. CSX was extremely power short at the time due to previously cancelled orders during the FLS and SBD eras and as a result of still putting together a fleet rationalization plan. The SD50s and SD60s continue to be key parts of the CSX fleet. The GP60 units that CSX picked up were picked up when CSX bought up a bunch of EMD lease units along with the SD70Ms. I don't believe they ever had plans to purchase GP60s new. Those Demo units with the rounded cab edges never got sold to any railroads so were placed in the lease fleet by EMD. Southern initially purchased SD24s to be assigned to the CNO&TP to combat some of the stiff grades that existed between Cincy and Chattanooga. The F9s were ordered after the CNO&TP SD24s and were to be assigned to the NO&NE. I believe the story goes that EMD told Southern they could have SD24s at roughly the same cost and quicker if they just tacked the NO&NE order onto the CNO&TP SD24 order. I know SOO spent a lot of time looking at GP49s. They tested the MKT and SOU units on a couple occasions. The GP59 was developed at the request of SOU/NS and I've seen photos of them at the former MILW facility in Bensenville IL. Not sure if that would have been run-through power or actually operating by SOO. The initial order of MILW SD40-2s was supposed to be SD38-2s to reduce weight and since the higher horsepower was not necessarily needed on lightweight trackage on the western part of the system where they were initially slated to go. EMD said they could build a SD40-2 to fit MILW's weight requirements so MILW went with the SD40-2.
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