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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2014 21:54:00 GMT -5
okay here we go i'm still working out the back story but I have pretty much set the roster in cement getting close to a paint scheme also.
so we'll start here with the power roster of the DWRR the numbering system is based off of the 1st 2 digits represent the year purchased the only exception to the rule are some of the swithcers which don't really work out for numbers
NW2 4500-409 blt '40
VO-1000 410-411 blt '41
SW8 500-503 blt '50
SW9 504-539 blt '50
SW1200 540-599 blt '54
SW1500 600-647 blt '66-'68
FT A/B 3900-A/B
F3 A-B-B-A 4500-4517 A-B-C-D
RSC2 4600 last of it's kind left on roster
FA/B-2 4700-4711 A-B
F7 A-B-B-A 4900-4905 A-B-C-D
GP7 4906-4929
RS3 5000-5013
F7 A-B-B-A 5015-5029 A-B-C-D
GP7 5030-5064
F7 A-B-B-A 5100-5109 A-B-C-D
GP7 5200-5241
SD7 5300-5319
SD9 5400-5414
SD9 5500-5509
GP9 5510-5539
GP9 5600-5649
GP9 5700-5727
GP9 5800-5819
SD9 5820-5844
GP9 5900-5909
SD9 5910-5929
GP30 6100-6122
GP30 6200-6227
GP30 6300-6338
GP35 6340-6377
U25B 6380-6395
C424 6396-6399 last new alco's
GP35 6400-6440
SD35 6450-6479
SD45 6500-6566
SD35 6570-6599
SD40 6600-6649
SD45 6650-6674
GP40 6675-6699
SD40 6700-6755
GP38 6756-6769
GP40 6770-6799
GP38 6800-6899
SD40 6900-6919
SD45 6920-6947
GP40 6948-6995
U23B 6996-6999
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2014 22:17:05 GMT -5
so there you go a basic overview of the roster showing that the DWRR was left with a bad taste in it's mouth with alco's due to their engine failures there are still a couple of baldwin's left toiling the yards ge's is starting to make a presence but primarily an Emd road hope to update soon with a back story i'll try to post when I can but being down to one vehicle limits my library trips.
anyways let me know what you think of the roster if I need to tweak it anymore or not at least i'm satisfied with it
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Post by MitchGDRMCo on Feb 27, 2014 3:44:57 GMT -5
I think you just need to pick one concept and stick with it.
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Post by lajmdlr on Feb 27, 2014 11:17:54 GMT -5
Looks like you want your roster to include just about every kind of loco ever produced. But most of the major RRs didn't have every kind. Santa Fe had ALCOs but didn't have any FA/FB & only had one GP40 acquired thru merger. And that was downgraded to a GP35. UP had FA/FBs but used them mostly as helpers.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2014 14:01:42 GMT -5
Looks like you want your roster to include just about every kind of loco ever produced. But most of the major RRs didn't have every kind. Santa Fe had ALCOs but didn't have any FA/FB & only had one GP40 acquired thru merger. And that was downgraded to a GP35. UP had FA/FBs but used them mostly as helpers. I'd like to hear more about that GP40. Sent from my GT-I9100 using proboards
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Post by lajmdlr on Feb 28, 2014 16:07:18 GMT -5
Here's a link to Evan Werkema's description of ATSF 2964: atsf.railfan.net/gp40/Was listening to my scanner 1/28/88 when it was wrecked. Even sadder was the Santa Fe employee who died. The signals had just been "fixed" but not done right. Click on the link the bottom to see even more of Evan's Santa Fe Subjects
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2014 18:32:59 GMT -5
Appreciate that info. Sorry to high jack the thread.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2014 12:45:43 GMT -5
A lot of guys say the same thing when these fantasy rosters are released into the public eye for scrutiny: too much variety, can't have one of everything.
I've been researching early diesels recently and it appears there were a lot of roads with lots of different makes and varieties of locomotive. For example; Reading had Baldwin's, Fairbanks Morse, Alco's, EMD's and GE's. That's 5 manufacturers, with several models from some of them. This is just one example and I'll grant you it was a Class I but where is the cut off?
From looking at a lot of early diesel rosters it seems that a road that made the transition from steam to diesel could have just about anything and standardisation became more prevalent from the late 70's onwards.
So this roster is entirely feasible is it not?
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Post by m a y o r 79 on Mar 3, 2014 13:03:54 GMT -5
Very true. The Milwaukee is a great example of this as they had locos from a lot of different builders. They also had a tendency to order small samplings of different models, sometimes as few as 1 loco. The ones off the top of my head for the Milwaukee would include:
Alco (in conjunction with GE for some electrics) Baldwin (in conjunction with Westinghouse for some electrics) Daven EMD Whitcomb Fairbanks Morse GE
That's a lot of builders for one railroad. Granted they heavily favored Fairbanks Morse and EMD (especially towards the end). I don't think your idea for a modeling roster is too far off base, especially for your timeframe. Great excuse to have variety.
I think it would be proto-typical to have small quantities of some of the locos though, especially the older road power and switchers.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2014 15:09:28 GMT -5
I agree. Small quantities is definitely a good idea, especially if you have a large roster but if you have groups of similar loco's it should all work. For example you may have a handful of GP38's and only one GP40 but they are both 66' line/second generation EMD's so they all have the same generic look. Same can be said for RS series, Century series, U-Boats or whatever line you choose.
Obviously these many and varied choices don't help your parts department keep stocks and costs down (probably a contributory factor in many a bankruptcy) but it certainly isn't un-prototypical.
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Post by poweredby251 on Mar 8, 2014 23:45:57 GMT -5
I've said this before in several threads but it applies here as well. Pay attention to the numbers. Rethink the types and numbers of loco's needed based on roads of similar size in the area. The loco builders are secondary, but not by much. For example, look at the roster here. It has around 100 total loco's PER YEAR through out the 1960's, a feat unequaled by even the UP, Santa Fe, or SP, the 3 giants of the west before the BN merger. Granted, there were years each got to, and exceeded, 100 loco's, but not to this extent.
Also, a road this size would have renumbered their loco's away from this type of numbering system long before, if they would have begun it at all. As far as I know, the biggest railroad to number by purchase dates was the M&StL, and they renumbered their roster away from it in the 1950's. Most of the large roads began their diesel numbering using gaps in the numbers in the steam roster. Some were careful to keep like grouped with like, for example Geeps and RS's, FA's and F's, in different series. Some initially chose to number by service in order of purchase, Geep's, RS's, geep's, FM's, etc. The Pennsy early on even used totally different number groupings based on which division the loco was assigned to. Later many rationalized their roster by renumbering all of the same model in one group to better control loco usage and characteristics.
Remember, though, the final person you need to justify your roster with is you.
John
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Post by MitchGDRMCo on Mar 9, 2014 3:33:52 GMT -5
You've hit the nail square on the head, this railroad wouldn't have as many locos nor as many types, curious also about some types being built after that model was retired and replaced in the catalogue (looking at the SD35s).
I think you need to do more research on how the real RRs operate and buying practices before you call this roster finished.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2014 5:28:39 GMT -5
SD35's were in the catalogue in 64-65' sobi see nothing wrong here wrt the SD35.
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Post by MitchGDRMCo on Mar 9, 2014 6:40:00 GMT -5
My bad on that but would a RR buy a SD35 with the older 567 over a newer SD38 (derp, couple years between the SD35 and SD38)? The bigger question is what are the SD35s on DW used for? Same goes for everything else really.... Right I went looking, the SD45s were first built at the end of 65 ( source) so I'm guessing the DW ones are the same as the demo units? They'd more likely be 1966 build so wouldn't be splitting the SD35 orders. I also agree with numbering, RRers in places quote the first two numbers instead of type, there'd be confusion saying you've got a couple of 55s on a train, are they SD9 or GP9?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2014 6:46:29 GMT -5
okay here we go i'm still working out the back story but I have pretty much set the roster in cement getting close to a paint scheme also. so we'll start here with the power roster of the DWRR the numbering system is based off of the 1st 2 digits represent the year purchased the only exception to the rule are some of the swithcers which don't really work out for numbers NW2 4500-409 blt '40 VO-1000 410-411 blt '41 SW8 500-503 blt '50 SW9 504-539 blt '50 SW1200 540-599 blt '54 SW1500 600-647 blt '66-'68 FT A/B 3900-A/B F3 A-B-B-A 4500-4517 A-B-C-D RSC2 4600 last of it's kind left on roster FA/B-2 4700-4711 A-B F7 A-B-B-A 4900-4905 A-B-C-D GP7 4906-4929 RS3 5000-5013 F7 A-B-B-A 5015-5029 A-B-C-D GP7 5030-5064 F7 A-B-B-A 5100-5109 A-B-C-D GP7 5200-5241 SD7 5300-5319 SD9 5400-5414 SD9 5500-5509 GP9 5510-5539 GP9 5600-5649 GP9 5700-5727 GP9 5800-5819 SD9 5820-5844 GP9 5900-5909 SD9 5910-5929 GP30 6100-6122 GP30 6200-6227 GP30 6300-6338 GP35 6340-6377 U25B 6380-6395 C424 6396-6399 last new alco's GP35 6400-6440 SD35 6450-6479 SD45 6500-6566 SD35 6570-6599 SD40 6600-6649 SD45 6650-6674 GP40 6675-6699 SD40 6700-6755 GP38 6756-6769 GP40 6770-6799 GP38 6800-6899 SD40 6900-6919 SD45 6920-6947 GP40 6948-6995 U23B 6996-6999 True there are a lot of loco's but sometimes I think people just have an 'its my train set and I'll do what I like' moment and I don't see anything wrong with that. Freelancing like many have done is great but when a hobby is for fun sometimes you just have to say sod it, there's no logic to this, I just want one. I think the more pertinent question that covered wagon should ask is; why am I freelancing, what is the aim? Sent from my GT-I9100 using proboards
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Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2014 19:45:46 GMT -5
You've hit the nail square on the head, this railroad wouldn't have as many locos nor as many types, curious also about some types being built after that model was retired and replaced in the catalogue (looking at the SD35s). I think you need to do more research on how the real RRs operate and buying practices before you call this roster finished. just an FYI i'm using actual build dates off the net as period produced or in catalog to order or actual production periods it really doesn't mateer anymore every time I try to do something someone has something bad to say about it. yes I know there were errors in the roster just hadn't gotten around to correcting them yet so since certain people seem to think they know what i'm doing better that I then you model the railroad i'm done
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Post by MitchGDRMCo on Mar 21, 2014 1:53:08 GMT -5
We don't know what you're doing better than you, we're simply giving advice to help you create something that won't be either a mess or a headache. But, if you don't see it as advice or constructive criticism then you obviously don't want help. Can't imagine how politicians get on, any time they do something people say bad things.....
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2014 3:17:01 GMT -5
You've hit the nail square on the head, this railroad wouldn't have as many locos nor as many types, curious also about some types being built after that model was retired and replaced in the catalogue (looking at the SD35s). I think you need to do more research on how the real RRs operate and buying practices before you call this roster finished. just an FYI i'm using actual build dates off the net as period produced or in catalog to order or actual production periods it really doesn't mateer anymore every time I try to do something someone has something bad to say about it. yes I know there were errors in the roster just hadn't gotten around to correcting them yet so since certain people seem to think they know what i'm doing better that I then you model the railroad i'm done I can see why you have said this, but in all fairness you asked for opinions and that's what you got. I agree they were mostly critical and could see you would react this way hence I made the points I did to help justify your ideas. However, the other guys are right, there are an awful lot of loco's and a large variety. There is nothing wrong with that, it's your train set, do what you like. Perhaps if you tell us what your railroad is/does and what its operating/motive power philosophy is, people may be able to be more constructive in their criticism and be able to offer advice. Sent from my GT-I9100 using proboards
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c415rock
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Post by c415rock on Mar 21, 2014 16:03:51 GMT -5
Guys,
I think the bigger picture was missed here. I know Covered Wagon, yes at times he dose go off path. But with a friendly nudge he can be shown the reasons why he went off the path. I know a lot of you don't and I don't expect you to know what is or has gone on his personal life. But I think we need to chose our words carefully. I am sure you guys did not mean to come across as being mean spirited, but I can understand how Covered Wagon took it that way. That is my biggest problem with e mail and forums in general. We are reading written words and a lot gets lost in translation. I know from personal experience that I have had customers send me a e mail at work and after reading it. It comes off as them being very rude or understanding of what going on. To only place a phone call to them and find out it is not that way at all. So just sit back and read what you have written in your post and ask yourself. Would you be turned off if someone you didn't know made those comments to you. Don't get me wrong you are entitled to say what you want. I am not trying to say we should be censored. The big thing to remember here is this is a hobby. Hobbies are meant to be relaxing and bring enjoyment. Some people have it not so well in life and after having the world kick you in the teeth day in and day out. For one reason or another be it health, lack of employment, or anything else it throws your way. They look to there hobbies to get away from the what ever it is that bothers them. So when they post on a forum and people are critical of them, they take it personal. The last thing they want to do is. Get kicked in the teeth again when they are trying to escape what troubles them to begin with. Please remember words can hurt, no matter how small they are. Yes it would be nice if we all had thick skins, but we don't. Now onto the post yes it is large. But I don't see where Covered Wagon that was the active roster. Maybe that was the historical roster of the company. No one ask him that, did we? Maybe a lot of the power came from a merger that he did not tell us about yet. For all we know maybe a merger or purchase of assets of the Rock Island had happened. He did say he was still working on the back story. Judgement was passed on this roster before the back story was complete. Once again this is model railroading and a freelance road to boot. I find it so funny when some one tells me that was not the way it happened in real life with my freelance road. I look at them and ask where did they see this? So that I might be able to go check out my freelance road in real life. As hard as I try, I just don't think that is going to happen. If he said this was a prototype freelance, I could understand the all the fuss about the roster. Like my Modern Erie Lackawanna roster is up for debate, points can be argued either way for or against a model on the roster. Based on what we know about the prototypes operations when they were around. We just don't have that data for a freelance model railroad.
In the end all that matters is that I am happy with freelance road. Then again I have a thick skin. I will get off the soap box now and get back to enjoying my hobby.
Erik
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2014 17:11:05 GMT -5
I agree with everything you have said Erik, hopefully I came across as trying to be helpful.
I could see from the first responses that coveredwagon was not going to like what he heard, so in my last comment I was trying to suggest that if people had the information about what kind of roster this is they might be able to contribute more constructively.
This roster mirrors many freelance rosters in that it has a lot of everything, but isn't that the point of freelancing. Isn't the aim to go off the beaten track and do whatever you please. Coveredwagon should just build and see what he comes up with, that's where the fun will be.
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