Grandt Line GE 25 Ton

[geep15t]

So I have the pleasure of roaming around industrial areas for my job and recently discovered this little guy. I instantly wanted to build one. Grandt Line made a kit for these and they are scarce but I snagged one on eBay brand new. San Juan bought all the Grandt Line tooling and I assume they will be making them but I never heard back. I've always like Grandt Line's products and this kit is no different. Hopefully this will be a quick build, my son (4 years old) has already determined we are painting it blue.




These little engines are fun because they are easy to personalize as often times are the real ones. I'm planning on keeping it fairly simple with a few caveats, I've shaved the door handles and replaced with .010 wire handles and will attempt to install real glass in the cab. I'm going to use the factory running gear except I will only power one axle like the prototype and will shove as much lead under it as I can. In the future I may build a better chassis with brass and some NWSL parts. The only thing I'm using from the kit will be the wheels sets. The plan is to machine some new semi-scale wheels, fun fact the prototype uses 34" wheels. Finishing it off with some brass coupler pockets with Sergent couplers. 

I think the hardest part will be concealing a Zscale decoder, it may get shoved under the frame. 

[countryroads]

Cool little build neat engine

[geep15t]

I confirmed the drive mechanism kind of sucks, its noisy, jumpy and full of slop. I've already ordered a new motor and gearbox.

But here's a picture of the cab interior coming together nicely.

[big train james]

I never realized that Grandt Line had the end cab version of the 25 ton loco available. I was only familiar with the boxcab style, which always fascinated me as a kid. There was an article in MR I think, called 50 Tons of Boxcab Fun, with two of the units connected by drawbar and wire tether to increase pickup opportunities.

Anyway, the boxcab version does not include a cab interior. Is the interior part of the end cab kit? Does anybody know if the two versions had the same style of control stand/cabinet. I want to make one in O scale, and I'd like to know how things were arranged inside the carbody with the hope of detailing part of it.

The end cab versions have been done in brass in O scale by several importers. The boxcab has also been imported, but it is pretty rare to see them come available.

Jim

[dale]

Hi Jim, the cab interior on a 25 tonner is very simple, the brakemans seat is rectangular and sits against the back wall and is good for 2 people, the seat is the battery box cover, the electrical cabinet comes into the cab about 2ft and the controls basically hang of that then the engineers seat is a little toad stool type, they're is only about 2 feet between the electrical cabinet and the battery box. The 25 tonner we use on my rr was built in 1946 and came from Allegheny Ludlum Steel Co, we have a second 25 tonner that was built in 48 that we don't use. Both units are a little older than the Grandt Line one, main difference are the hood doors are completely flat on our locos. Dale

[geep15t]

Nov 21, 2019 21:45:42 GMT -5 big train james said:

Anyway, the boxcab version does not include a cab interior. Is the interior part of the end cab kit? Does anybody know if the two versions had the same style of control stand/cabinet. I want to make one in O scale, and I'd like to know how things were arranged inside the carbody with the hope of detailing part of it.

Jim,

Yes there is a full cab interior in the end cab model. It matches pretty well to the wealth of photos I've seen of small GE locos. I like the boxcabs too, I think they would be pretty easy to scratch build. I'm also helping my dad to build a large scale version (1:32). I'm going to try and produce a true axle hung traction motor for his. There is online old Army manual for the older 23 & 25 ton engines with a line drawing it. It has the major dimensions. Just google Army GE 25 ton pdf. I think you could take the cab dimensions and stretch it across the frame to get pretty close to the boxcab dimension.

[big train james]

Thanks to both of you for the info on the cab controls. It sounds like the internals are similar between different size locos? I believe there is a 35 tonner fairly local to me, and I know they have a 23 or 25 tonner (in narrow gauge) at the Hesston Steam Museum over in Indiana. I may be able to get photos or measurements from one or both of those locos.

I'm curious about differences between the 23 and 25 ton versions. Somewhere long ago, I read that the only distinction on the boxcabs was the thickness of the deck plate. I also was always of the notion that the end cab and boxcab versions were the same overall size, shared the same chassis, and really only differed in that the boxcab enclosed the engine as well as the cab. I've got that Army manual as well, and also I also have a diagram of sorts marked as a 23 ton boxcab. The overall dimensions vary somewhat - ~8" difference in length over pulling faces, ~5" difference in height. So now I wonder. Although realistically, I'm sure a model built to either spec would be adequate.

Regarding drives, I have an article saved from the September 1991 Model Railroader that details scratchbuilding a 23 tonner in HO, in brass. The author of that article used a NWSL PDT power truck for the drive (part #70124, 6' wheelbase, 33" wheels). I know you said you had something on the way for the drive, but the spud may be an option if things don't work out.

I have several of the boxcab kits, and at least one power kit. I think they changed the motor from the early years. I bought the first kit circa 1985, the floor casting includes a ring just smaller than the width of the cab, in which a small can motor would fit. I believe the later units went to a cheap open frame motor like you would find in a slot car. Obviously a can motor would not fit inside the hood of the end cab model. I never built the original kit, so I don't know how well the old drive functioned.

By the way, that MR article has HO scale 2d drawings for producing the parts in etched metal. The model is of the style with the headlight over the cab and the flat radiator front, and what looks like flush hood doors. However, the artwork could always be scaled up to 1:32, and changes implemented if you wanted the sloped front version. Also, when it comes time for the boxcab, I can take measurements off the kit I have. Or I can just send you one of the spare unpowered kits, it would be pretty cheap (like the cost of shipping).

[big train james]

Some photos, just for fun.....

Old style Grandt Line boxcab drive: bevel gear to an axle gear, then idlers from one axle to the other.





And some O scale examples.  









With all this chatter, I want one really badly now!  It would be good timing too, because I've just started a rail to truck cement transfer facility build, and I'm going to need a car mover.  It's either this or a trackmobile.

[big train james]

Last thing, here is a link to a UK site with lots of discussion on axle hung traction motors.

Clag

[dale]

That o scale one with the hood, looks like a Whitcomb 25 tonner,we also have one of those on our property that is owned by some one else. Our 25 tonners have 150 hp Cummins engines, not much pulling power! To say the least, on flat ground we can usually move maybe 6 cars at the most, but
on the main with loads we can only pull 2 cars up hill, depending on weather. Last week we got stuck on the hill with one car load of urea, leaves all over the rails and frost, we had to hand sand the rails a few hundred feet,it took about an hour to go 1/4 mile!

[big train james]

I'm only vaguely familiar with the Whitcomb lineup. But all of the google results for ge23 ton or 25 ton switchers bring up lots and lots of pictures that look like that brass model. They also bring up photos of GE 25 tonners that look like the subject model in this thread. There appears to be a phase organization for these locos. I like the flat front version a bit better, with the headlight up on the cab.

I'm hoping to have one to use as a plant car shifter, so I can get away with the limited pulling power. I can't imagine moving more than 5 or 6 cars at a time, and all on mostly level track.

[geep15t]

My first of two possible options has shown up. In my desire for a smoother running unit, I have came up with two options to replace the motor and gears, a simple one and a over zealous options. Below is the simpler option, the motor is 12V and spins at 60rpm. I will have to limit the power to about 25% to keep it at a 20smph. The gearbox will get some grinding to keep it from hanging below the railhead and the output shaft will be altered to mount on a 1mm axle. Still on order is a coreless motor and some tiny brass gears to make a true axle hung traction motor. More pics to come. Both will require a completely new chassis, I'll likely make it out of brass. I also now have plenty of space for a decoder with either option.

[jbvb]

Seashore Trolley Museum got a GE 25 ton from the Providence & Worcester a couple of years ago. I operate it occasionally and the engineer's station is definitely cramped.