Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2013 13:40:07 GMT -5
Nick, do you live in the area?
|
|
|
Post by analogbeatmaker on Dec 18, 2013 14:15:27 GMT -5
I did for almost 20 years but I moved to Nashville, TN about 2 years ago. Talk about no hobby shops this place has nothing! I wish I did still live in the Raleigh area because I'd enjoy meeting you.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2013 12:27:44 GMT -5
Last night I pulled out the GP35m's again and did a bit of work on them. Since I built the I-beam frame on these two units, I had to narrow the mounting tabs on the shell so they would not spread the I-beam when placed on the frame. This worked out really well. Put the shell on my milling tool, set it on its side and milled half the tab off. My goal is to keep the original Kato system for securing the shell to the frame. So that portion is done. Now I can detail the frame.
After some more research on these two units I have come to see that on both units, the pilot plates and step wells have been replaced. They now sport -2 style step wells and pilot plates. So a new plan of attach is in order. I need to acquire two Kato SD40-2 sill units. Thanks to a fellow list member here, I have one already. I just need one more and hopefully by the end of the day tomorrow I will have the other one. I'll have to buy the whole model, but I can use the motor for another project. So if I get the model at a good price, then it is OK. If not, then I will keep searching for just a sill or a shell kit that includes the sill. Not concerned though. I will acquire it.
So my plan and approach is this. On these 35m's, I am not going to replace everything just for the sake of replacing it. I will replace stuff that enhances the look and fidelity of the model. I want to keep the cab and sub base. So that means I need to preserve the tread plate on the deck so it matches the sub base. I know, the Kato tread plate is oversized. But for me, that is OK. I am not concerned about that nor have I ever been. Enhance and detail it with some good weathering. So this means I have to do some careful surgery to the 35's and to the SD40-2 deck and step wells. I need to remove the pilot plate from the 35 and replace it with the 40-2. My first approach will be to replace the pilot and step well as on piece. If that is not possible, then I will replace them separately. My next session with the 35's will be my planning session on how to do this. The ONLY down side is that Kato uses ABS plastic. A real bear to glue. I'll have to use CA to get a strong joint. If I can pull this surgery off, the rest of the model will go rather quickly and will be an enjoyable build.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2013 12:46:41 GMT -5
So I have more 4 axle motive power coming to the Copper State Railway. Two Athearn Genesis GP38-2's. One ex MOPAC unit and one ex Canadian National unit. Also another Kato GP35. I still have to locate the prototypes that they will be modeled after.
The two GP35m's I am working on will be assigned to mine duty along with a pair of GP39-2's when Athearn finally releases those. The third GP35 will be rebuilt into a GP38-3 and be assigned to Wellton, AZ. Although, that one may be replaced with a pair of locomotives being either a chop nose GP9 or GP10 or GP11. I need branch switching power as well so the 38-2's and -3/m's will be assigned to local switching duties.
I have trimmed my 6 axle roster down to 10 units from 12 units. As you can see, I have added a few 4 axle units for some of the local switching. I do not yet know how many I need, but it is not a whole lot. Following what SP/UP had/has going. I need at least a pair for the Tempe/Chandler branch and a pair for the Mesa/Chandler branch. Since the 6 axle stuff will not always be working the main, yard duties can be handled by them. I also have local switching duties in Phoenix proper that needs attention and also the agricultural communities west of Phoenix. So I need to understand what my motive power needs truly are. Time to hit up my friends who are in the know on this stuff to get the proper motive power assessments.
|
|
|
Post by Wayne Snyder on Dec 19, 2013 13:20:14 GMT -5
Brian,
I'm real interested in what you are doing to the GP35's, they seem to be similar to the FWWR power I'm trying to work on. Could you share some photos?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2013 13:33:15 GMT -5
Sure, when I get them available, I will post them on my web site. I will post you a link when they are available.
|
|
|
Post by Wayne Snyder on Dec 19, 2013 14:45:16 GMT -5
Thanks Brian,
Before paint also if you could, sometimes seeing what you have done is easier before paint is applied.
|
|
milw199
Superintendent
Beaded crossbucks FTW
Posts: 180
|
Post by milw199 on Dec 26, 2013 2:52:28 GMT -5
So I need to understand what my motive power needs truly are. Time to hit up my friends who are in the know on this stuff to get the proper motive power assessments. Use the SD40-2s everywhere possible: better ride, pull more, fuel saving from unit reduction, better visibility from the cab for a man standing on the front steps. 4-axle power where the track is poor. End-cab switchers if you dislike your crews (poor ride, no room in the cab, a bit of pucker factor running 40 mph glass end leading). We have a yard with mostly 90-lb stick rail, switched with SD40-2s all the time. Cars get heavier, need more power to move them around.
|
|
|
Post by iomalley on Dec 26, 2013 10:05:33 GMT -5
I dunno, most of the CN hoggers I polled liked a pair of GR12s nose-to-nose (SW1200rs model) for dubious reasons. They had flexicoils so they rode better, and one alone was useless to pull anything, but 2 together were like magic to the additional traction they gained. But the number one reason they liked them was because CN never installed event recorders in them so they were their little hot rods... They all emphatically hated the MLWs (Alcos) cuz when they were around, these hoggers were brakemen and they had to wear hats cuz they spewed so much oil out the stack. The other model they liked was the SD70/75i cuz is was perfection in pulling and ride quality. One hogger said that they were so quiet you had to throw popcorn out of the window to see if you were moving! The SD70M-2s were a step backwards, especially the CN 8000s (cancelled NS order) which I rode in a few times and was astounded by how EVERYTHING vibrated in the cab at ANY speed! They were worse than a beat up 30+ year old 5300! The fatter hoggers liked the units with the console control stands for obvious reasons...
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 26, 2013 10:48:28 GMT -5
Thanks Mike. This is great information. Here is a basic rundown of what I know.
When I lived in Arizona, I lived between two branches. I call them the Tempe/Chandler branch and the Mesa/Chandler branch. I won't go into detail of what was served on each of these branches. At the time, SP used two four axle units per branch. After UP took over, sometimes I would see an SD50 and GP40-2 paired up. Mostly though it would be two four axle units. The branches are not long, but they would leave the power tied up at the beginning of each branch after the days work was done. Prior to the UP take over, the Tempe/Chandler branch was fully upgraded with heavier all welded rail. Both branches can handle six axle power.
So the question I have. Should I copy the four axle power usage for these two branches. Or should I go to a single six axle unit or a pair of six axle units?
The main yard will use a pair of six axle units for switching. There is also a smaller secondary yard about a mile or less to the west of the main yard. I figure the yard power can handle that yard as well. More or less an overflow yard.
Next I have to consider the switching for the local Phoenix area. Lots of small branches, but I think one unit can handle all this. Then there is the agricultural community to the west of Phoenix. I still have to investigate the rail needs for this.
I have already settled on tbe mine power. So no need to discuss this.
I have two other areas. One is the feed elevators in Wellton. I am thinking one GP35 for there. Then there is UP interchange in Eloy. I was thinking maybe a pair of GP38-2's.
So my roster so far would consist of the following:
12 SD40-2's 3 GP35m's 2 GP38-2's 2 GP39-2's
This will change depending on what I do for the two branch lines. Also, I could take the two GP38-2's and put them at the mine and remove the 39-2's. Then take one of the 12 SD40-2's and assign it to Eloy. Actually, I think the 12 SD40-2's can be used for pretty much everything other than the mine power and the one unit in Wellton. I think 12 units should cover the railroads needs. The 40-2's will only be in mainline service when there are trains to be dropped off/ picked up in Eloy.
There is new information and developments happening about what port the copper concentrate will be delivered to. It will either be LA or down in Guaymes, Mexico. If Mexico, then the trains only need to go to Eloy for interchange with UP which is a short trip from the mine loadout. So that means the mine power can handle that train and the empties back.
|
|
|
Post by analogbeatmaker on Dec 26, 2013 14:29:57 GMT -5
Just curious Brian, are you going to completely finish all of your motive power and rolling stock before you start construction of your layout? Or, are you going to start building it at a certain point during the modeling of your trains? As much as I enjoy your train modeling I also really look forward to seeing your layout come into being.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 26, 2013 17:04:28 GMT -5
Most likely my layout will not be HO. I do not have the space for it. I definitely want to see my dream of a layout come true and finally build one in our new home next year, but it will probably be 1960's C&EI in N-Scale prior to the MOPAC hostile take over. I also like the Monongahela during the years they used the ex NYC sharks. I have enough Shark models to do the entire MGA shark roster. I also like the fact I could model Detroit Edison and Penn Central along with it. C&EI appeals to me more though for N-Scale.
HO modeling though will be my Copper State Railway.
|
|
|
Post by analogbeatmaker on Dec 26, 2013 18:07:40 GMT -5
That's really interesting. I would've never thought one would put so much time into creating the exceptional models you are building to not use them on a layout. Even if you don't have the room for the size layout you ideally want surely you could build a smaller one that would be a nice place for your HO trains to live. Regardless, keep up the amazing work on the HO models...I think it's fantastic. I also can appreciate the N-scale world so hopefully once you start building that layout, you'll keep an "In Progress" thread going. Also, I'll enjoy seeing the micro-detailing you will bring to that arena.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 26, 2013 18:45:30 GMT -5
Although Nick. As I get more models done, the layout idea may change and become more or less along shelf diorama. Something to display them on. My modeling mind is an absolute catastrophe. One thing for sure is. Before anything happens, I keep coming back to my HO scale Copper State Railway. It is really the only railroad I want to model.
I'll give you an example of why I typed that I would probably build N layout. I am in the Chicago area this week. Today I visited my two favorite stores. There was so much stuff in stock, it waz unbelievable. I was drawn to the N-Scale counter1 a number of times just because there wS so much stuff. So I started thinking that MAYBE I should start looking into that scale again. It is cool and I have the room for it. So when I read your post, naturally my N-Scale mind had taken over. Since then it started to run its course and I am back to being focused on the CSR and my HO plans. I feel much better now. It happens quickly for me. But as I said, I keep coming back to the Copper State Railway.
To get back to your original question. If I can figure out how to fit in two helix's, I will have a really nice setup. I have had a track plan for a long time. Once I can get my hobby room/ layout room built at the new house, I will have a better idea of how I can set it all up. So the layout builxing and modeling will happen together. Split my time.
|
|
|
Post by poweredby251 on Dec 26, 2013 23:07:28 GMT -5
Don't forget to add a few units as spares. You will need to cover units being maintained and inspected, as well as being ready for any temporary or seasonal traffic increases. Figure for your regular traffic, and add 2-4 extra units to use as floaters, and maybe one or two stored but ready to go with minimal shop time. A local shortline here, the Minnesota Commercial, has what looks to be a lot of stored engines by their roundhouse, up to 10 or even more at times, sitting drained and shut down. But they use mainly older Alco's and -7 GE's, and rotate them in and out of storage on a schedule, keeping them all in good condition and reducing over all wear and tear across the fleet. John Thanks Mike. This is great information. Here is a basic rundown of what I know. When I lived in Arizona, I lived between two branches. I call them the Tempe/Chandler branch and the Mesa/Chandler branch. I won't go into detail of what was served on each of these branches. At the time, SP used two four axle units per branch. After UP took over, sometimes I would see an SD50 and GP40-2 paired up. Mostly though it would be two four axle units. The branches are not long, but they would leave the power tied up at the beginning of each branch after the days work was done. Prior to the UP take over, the Tempe/Chandler branch was fully upgraded with heavier all welded rail. Both branches can handle six axle power. So the question I have. Should I copy the four axle power usage for these two branches. Or should I go to a single six axle unit or a pair of six axle units? The main yard will use a pair of six axle units for switching. There is also a smaller secondary yard about a mile or less to the west of the main yard. I figure the yard power can handle that yard as well. More or less an overflow yard. Next I have to consider the switching for the local Phoenix area. Lots of small branches, but I think one unit can handle all this. Then there is the agricultural community to the west of Phoenix. I still have to investigate the rail needs for this. I have already settled on tbe mine power. So no need to discuss this. I have two other areas. One is the feed elevators in Wellton. I am thinking one GP35 for there. Then there is UP interchange in Eloy. I was thinking maybe a pair of GP38-2's. So my roster so far would consist of the following: 12 SD40-2's 3 GP35m's 2 GP38-2's 2 GP39-2's This will change depending on what I do for the two branch lines. Also, I could take the two GP38-2's and put them at the mine and remove the 39-2's. Then take one of the 12 SD40-2's and assign it to Eloy. Actually, I think the 12 SD40-2's can be used for pretty much everything other than the mine power and the one unit in Wellton. I think 12 units should cover the railroads needs. The 40-2's will only be in mainline service when there are trains to be dropped off/ picked up in Eloy. There is new information and developments happening about what port the copper concentrate will be delivered to. It will either be LA or down in Guaymes, Mexico. If Mexico, then the trains only need to go to Eloy for interchange with UP which is a short trip from the mine loadout. So that means the mine power can handle that train and the empties back.
|
|
milw199
Superintendent
Beaded crossbucks FTW
Posts: 180
|
Post by milw199 on Dec 31, 2013 16:49:36 GMT -5
It depends on the workload as to one unit or two. Many times a pair will stay paired up back-to-back, so that a unit is always forwards. Better visibilty that way, running backwards for 10-12 hours is less than premium. The unneeded unit can be isolated for fuel conservation. For switching, having 2 units is usually better, easier to move the cuts, and to stop the cuts, especially if the cars are bled off (no air brakes on the cars).
The UP usually uses two 4-axle engines on their local that runs past my place, but sometimes they use one, or the other day they had 6, followed by two cars. I'm sure they have some side tracks that require 4-axle power. In the past, they would have the road trains stop and do the switching. Fun to see an 8-unit consist of big engines spot two cars at the local co-op. The local trains are usually sized so that two 4-axle units can handle it.
The ex-UP GP39-2 we just received at work is less than premium. Takes forever to load. The GP38-2s we have load pretty much right now. The 38s start to spin out before the 39 does anything. At least the 39 has good brakes.
SD40-2s are cheap on the resale market now. 4-axle power is at a premium, as the Class 1s remembered they have tracks they can't take the bigger power into. Sd40-2s are too small for the Class 1s, but too big to go into some of these tracks, so they spend to get 4-axle power.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2013 16:58:55 GMT -5
Ever since Nick posted a question about when I would start building a layout, it has been on my mind. I am visiting our grandson in the Chicago area and have nothing to do but armchair model. So I have been thinking about what I really want from my layout.
I did bring my two Copper State Railway SD40-2's with me. My friend Chris Zygmunt took me to one of his friend's house to run trains. The layout was huge. It took me almost 2 hours to run around it. Lots of fun. Pulled a 60 car coal train. When I was at the St. Louis RPM show, I had the chance to run my locomotives and pulled a 60+ car coal train. From these two experiences, I know I want to run long trains. I really enjoy that.
The space I will have in my new home will be 18' x 10' for a layout. Although I know that is good for HO, it is not good for running long trains in HO. In N, I can run long trains easily. I already have one 15' length of my layout planned. I have had it done for about 6 years now. In N this portion will fit along one wall. In HO, I can only fit about half of it. Maybe less. Also, I want my layout to have two levels. A helix in HO is prohibitive in the space I have. In N, it will easily tuck into a corner and still leave me a lot of space for the main layout.
This is not to say I will stop modeling in HO. HO will be my fine scale modeling fix as is my three ex QNS&L SD40-2's.
So the Copper State Railway is going N. Roster will be pretty much the same with a couple exceptions. No tunnel motor and no SDP45. Basically it will be about 5 ex BN SD40-2's, three ex QNS&L units, a couple of ex UP snoots and I will try to reproduce the ex C&NW unit I have in HO and maybe try to make a Q equipped ex UP SD40-2. I also want to build a yard slug from one of my Atlas C628's. Even though these were all scrapped, it fits my criteria for being on my railroad. It will be an ex SP yard slug.
I have two big challenges. One is building ditch lights. I have an idea of how to do it. I know the thickness will be a little oversize if they sit on top of the deck. There is no way around it. On the face of the pilot though, I may be able to thin them down closer to scale. The second challenge is creating desert scenery. It is not as forgiving as non-desert scenery because you can't hide things behind trees. Things like blending the backdrop. I'll have to make a lot of Ocotillo, Saguaro, Barrel and prickly pear cactus as well as sage. The backdrop is going to be VERY challenging. I think I will have to make a trip to AZ and take a whole lot of panoramic photos and blend the scenery into them. I think it will all be fun and challenging.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2013 17:08:23 GMT -5
I forgot to add. While I am here in the Chicago area I picked up 4 Kato N-Scale BN SD40-2 models. From Digikey, I bought 50 Knowles Fox speakers and four Loksound Select Micro decoders. The speakers are going to be discontinued as of January 1st so I wanted to get enough to last me for everything I need. I was told by an experienced N-Scale sound installer that these were the best speakers. They were a good buy at about $1.63 each. Price break was at a quantity of 50.
The Kato models were an icreadible price too at $60.00 each brand new.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2013 18:14:20 GMT -5
Ok Vince. Your confusing me. First you say the thing tbat sucks about knowles fox speakers and then you end with saying it made a world of difference.
|
|
|
Post by riss2509 on Dec 31, 2013 21:40:26 GMT -5
Hope your enjoying the snowy weather here in the burbs Brian, here in Elk Grove Village Ive already shoveled once and probably once again before I head to the FD. What is the normal amount of unit trains that run concentrate in Arizona? Ive never looked into there operations before. Is it usually 1 to 2 loaded sets per day outbound and equal return? Way its looking you have a decent motive power plan, can always consider a few leased units to throw in as needed.
|
|