KATO SD80MAC decoder "izing"

[joelashcroft]

Good evening folks!  Last year I purchased a Kato Ho scale SD80MAC painted fo CSX.  My goal is to decoder the unit with the following features:
-Front Headlight
-Rear headlight
-Ditch Lights
-Front working red nose marker lights (Conrail feature)
-Rear  working red marker lights (Conrail Feature)

..and sound.
Question, will I need two decoders for this?

Joel

[lyled1117]

It depends on your choice of decoder. You need six functions to do the lighting as you desire. If you go with a Tsunami decoder you will need a second function only decoder. The Tsunami has a total of 4 functions so a 2 function decoder like the TCS FL2 will suffice. The QSI sound decoder has a higher function count built in and on it's own has all the functions you need.

Lyle

[c415rock]

Hi Joel,

I would recommend the ESU LokSound Select. It has the six functions you need and great motor control. I would also recommend a Rail Master speaker as well. Here is a link to ESU page with the decoder for the SD80mac.

www.esu.eu/en/downloads/sounds/loksound-select/

If you have any other questions just ask.

Erik

[joelashcroft]

Thanks for the link, Erik.  I went to their website and listened to the sound smaples.  I hope the throttle changes are more realistic than what the sample sounded like.  There was no "ramp up" for the particular change, just an instant "already there" engine sound. 

I do like the function ability though, as you pointed out, I could cover all my lighing needs.

Joel

[lyled1117]

Just to put an alternate spin on things, sometimes there is an advantage in using two (or more) decoders. If you have a situation where there are several lights attached directly to a shell it may be easier to mount a function only decoder(s) to the shell to supply those. Then you only need run a single pair of wires to power that decoder through a 2-pin connector to be able to disconnect the shell for service, etc. The motor decoder can power lights that are frame mounted if there are any.

One example of how I've done this is a Chicago Metra F40PH, Kato version. I used a Tsunami to power the headlight, the rear light, and the two lower flashing lights. These four go through light bars that are frame mounted and use all of the available Tsunami functions. A TCS FL4 was used to light the rear end markers on the front which are lit when in push mode, the flashing upper headlight, and to make the upper red emergency light operational. These are shell mounted bulbs or light bar/LED. I used a TCS VR15 to eliminate the resistors that would have been needed for the bulbs. The TCS decoder only needs a pair of wires for power.

Another example, kind of extreme, is a Lionel S-scale U33C that was converted to DCC. I used a TCS FL4 and FL2 to power the LEDs and bulbs I mounted on the shell and used none of the Tsunamis light outputs. I powered each FL decoder with it's own 2-pin connector, tho' I could have done both with one pair. For programming purposes I liked being able to disconnect one or the other FL decoder. If we pretend I had a decoder that had enough function outputs for the lights I did I would have had a seven wire harness to deal with.

There's no reason to use multiple decoders if you don't want to, but it can make wiring easier in some cases. Hope this helps some.

Lyle

[joelashcroft]

Lyle, that does make a lot of sense, and since I don't mind doing the extra work, have though about adding lighted number boards to the front.

On another note, how hard is it to program the unit with multi decoders?

Joel

[lyled1117]

There are different things that can be done to make programming of multiple decoders not be too difficult, sometimes easy. One way is to wire each decoder so it can be disconnected from power. Remove power from the decoder you don't want to alter. The trade off is you have to have access to the power connection which usually means shell removal.

One method I use frequently is to give each decoder a different short address. I make that change before connecting them together. When you have each decoder programmed as desired, give them the same long address and they now work as one decoder. If you want to change only one decoder, on the main tell the long address decoder to use it's short address (CV29 change). The 'one' decoder is now two (or more) individual decoders with unique addresses. In this configuration a power disconnect is not necessary but can still be useful. If you do a master reset of one decoder you may reset all of them (that depends on the decoder brand and it's reset procedure). In that event being able to separately power the decoders can be useful to get them back to different short addresses.

To expand on this I'll use my Lionel example that had two function decoders. The Tsunami I left as '3', the FL4 I set to '4', and the FL2 I set to '5'. After I had each remapped and lighting effects programmed as needed I set the long address of all of them to '3320'. If I want to alter one of the decoders I can on the main tell loco '3320' to use it's short address by changing CV29 to 2. At that point I can talk to decoder 3,4, or 5 as needed. When done I tell decoder '3' to use it's long address by changing CV29 to '34', decoder '4' the same, and decoder '5' the same. They are now back to being one decoder.

Hope this makes sense
Lyle

[Mark R.]

Lyle - Maybe I'm a bit confused, as it is obviously working for you somehow ....

When you set the long address in a decoder, CV's 17 and 18 are configured for the long address, this also requires CV1 to be set to 3 does it not ? That being the case, how do you revert back to the short address when CV1 on all three decoders is set to 3 for the long address ?

The way I've done it, is to set each decoder to it's own unique address and then just mu them together. If I need to program them separately, I just break down the consist and program them as singles, then re-mu them back together.


Mark.

[lyled1117]

Mar 31, 2013 12:39:08 GMT -5 Mark R. said:

Lyle - Maybe I'm a bit confused, as it is obviously working for you somehow ....

When you set the long address in a decoder, CV's 17 and 18 are configured for the long address, this also requires CV1 to be set to 3 does it not ? That being the case, how do you revert back to the short address when CV1 on all three decoders is set to 3 for the long address ?

Not at all.    CV1 can hold whatever short address value you want to place in it. CV17/18 holds the long address value of course. It's the value in CV29 that tells the decoder which one is the active address. That's why I can give each decoder a different short address but the same long address. All I need to do is change CV29 to toggle between the short and the long address.

In a sense you are doing what I do if you are using CV19 (consist address) to MU the decoders. That value over rides the choice set by CV29.  If you take the decoders out of consist, you can talk to them independently. The downside for me in doing it this way (if in fact you are   ) is that a consist address can only be a short address. My method MU's the decoder by just giving them the same base address (basic consisting).

Lyle

[joelashcroft]

I'm thinking the LOK Sound decoder may be the option for me. It will save me a lot of extra wiring. I've got a Railmaster speaker in my C&O H8 and it sounds great! Defineatly go with RM again for speaker choice.
Joel