Steve's GP10 Project

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Hi all,


I have been working on a Kaslo Shops GP10 kit for a while now. This is the first real detailed diesel project I have ever tackled. Maybe not the best one to try for my first! It has been a character builder so far.

I have listed out some observations and a bunch of questions that I am hoping some of the more experienced folks out there can comment on. I have posted pics of the shell so far below. Please feel free to give me your candid advice and observations. I am learning and need all the help I can get!

-The etched brass fan grills that are provided are almost impossible to use as has been commented on by several people here in the past. As apparently no-one makes replacement fans that will work, I decided to transfer the fans from the P2K shell to the Kaslo shell. I'm not sure I would try that again as I am not 100% happy with how they turned out. The fans from the P2K shell fit into holes in the shell and are recessed a bit. i did not want to drill those large of holes in the Kaslo shell so I sanded them down a bit so they would sit flush. They look OK, not great.

-I really do not like the stanchions that are provided with the kit. For the ends, the stanchions and hand rails from the P2K kit fit perfectly, so I transferred them to the Kaslo kit. Again, I'm not 100% happy with this decision- they look OK. They are glued on now so they are staying. For the side stanchions I ordered some Cal Scale stanchions but they did not match the prototype so I decided to just use the ones in the kit. They look OK as well but are a pain to work with.

-For the handrail, I am using the prescribed wire size (.15" I think?). I don't know if I got the right "type" of wire as it is very challenging to bend. If you don't bend it exactly right, it does not like to be bent back. It is also difficult to get a "rounded" bend as opposed to a more sharp bend. I am just using small pliers to do this.

-What handrail stanchions would you recommend using? I have not seen the Smokey Valley ones in person but I hear they are nice.

-What is the best way to bend the handrails? Should I be using a specific type of wire? One that is more malleable? Also, the templates they provide in the kit are not 100% accurate.

-I have glued the handrails to the stanchions as opposed to soldering them. I'm afraid that this will make them even more fragile for future handling.

-For the front and rear headlights, I am planning on mounting 1.5w incandescent bulbs. I have some that fit perfectly in the openings and I generally like the looks of them but I don't really have much experience with LED's. Should I use LED's instead?

-I am struggling trying to determine what to do for the signal lights between the number boards. If anyone has worked on one of these kits, there is a lot of material that would have to be drilled through to actually mount a buld here, and because the light housing casting extends slightly beyond the width of the roof in this area, I am afraid there is not enough material to allow this. Right now I am considering putting lenses in for the top two lights and lighting them from behind somehow. The bottom red light will be a dummy lens. Any suggestions?

-I also did not realize that a brass casting was available of this housing. I have mounted the one that comes with the kit. I have since ordered some brass ones off of E-bay for future projects.

-My general gluing skills are not great. In trying to glue some of the more dainty items I am concerned I am going to see a lot of glue residue after it is painted. Are there any general tricks to this that can be shared? I'm using medium viscocity CA applied via a toothpick.

-Regarding the number boards, do you recommend attempting to light these? How would that be done? The kit comes with the "glass" to fit the number board. I'm assuming I'll put white decal film on them, then the black numbers on top to get the effect of the prototype. I expect gluing these in place will be difficult.

-The instructions say to wait to install the window frames and wind sheilds until after the model is painted- why is that? Aren't they the same color as the side of the loco?

-I plan to install the air hoses after painting- good idea or bad?

-I have no idea how you would use the uncoupling levers that come with the Kaslo it. They are in several individual pieces and don't look like they would fit in the small brackets they provide. I got some from DA (I think). Mounting those via the brackets that come with the kit was an exercise in patience. I'm glad they give you a lot of extras as I think I lost about 10 of them trying to do this.

-I am having a hell of a time getting the shell to fit on the P2K frame. First, the ends of the frame are too long and rub up against the pilots. I have grinded these quite a ways back to get the shell to fit. Next the weight is really too wide and results in a way too tight a fit for the shell. I am in the process of grinding that back as well. A piece of advice is to do this before you start adding the details to the loco!

- I am not sure if the fuel tanks that come with the P2K kit are accurate or not. Does anyone know? If now, what should I use.

Sorry for the lengthy post, but I have a lot of questions.

Well I’m getting close to painting this thing. If the end result doesn't turn out to be a disaster, I will attempt a GP8 next. All I can say is that I hope that Athearn does the GP10's as they have said and that they are decent models. I am up for modifying and detailing existing locos after this project!


Thanks,

Steve Johnson

Carmel, In

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Pic2

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Pic3

[iomalley]

I would sug Precision Scale stanchions, easy to get and accurate.

Details west makes 36" fans

the Kaslo uncoupling levers are generic and may not fit this application

Your woes are typical of a craftsman kit like this. Nothing out of the ordinary for a Kaslo kit.

[icghogger]

Steve, I have some of the same issues with the Kaslo PE, especially forming the fan grilles. Stainless is not as malleable as brass, so getting the right shape is difficult, if not impossible. I substituted some plastic grilles from my parts stash, but I'm still not satisfied with the result.



Sean's recommendation about PSC stanchions is a good one, and they are easy to fit, and I use phosphor bronze wire for handrails (easy to form, but tough enough for handling). I get mine from Tichy.

I used a P2K drive/frame and had to modify the corners to get a good fit.

I am trying LEDs for the headlight (mine is the "frogeye" style) and it took a bit of doing to wire them in. Yours should be a little easier.

[remhed]

Actually i did order Precision Scale stanchions, but the ones that came were not right. i cannot find any decent pictures of their parts to match up with what is in the catalog. Can you recommend the right part #?

[soda]

Steve,

I believe the stanchions you are using in your photos are the later style ones, you need the earlier style stanchions, Precision Scale Co makes them. Their part #585-39065. Also, I do believe you have your coupler cut levers on upside down, you should reference some photos online of the pilot of the unit your trying to model, you'll see what I mean.

I'm also gonna try and help you out/give you my personal opinion with some of your other question, I only ask you to double check my responses as I have been out of the hobby for aprox. 15 years, and haven't even introduced myself in the members area yet.

Incandescent vs. LED? I would go LED, its a fact that LED's have a longer lifespan than an incandescent bulb, go to the search menu here on DD, and search for this topic and I'm certain you will find an old post that will help you out.

Gluing... I've read on the DD of people using Barge cement thinned down, and painted on photo etched parts like diamond plate tread plate, letting it dry, placing the part in position and reactivating the cement with MEK, providing a clean way to adhere large flat parts, but for stuff like grab irons and horns I would just use thick CA, once again look in the search menu for more info.

Windows and number boards, I would wait till after the painting is done to install these items or paint them separately then instal them, I would imagine installing them before all the major painting is done, would be a huge pain for masking, and if you did get over spray on them, their already glued in and at that point your kinda committed, and don't use CA to glue in stuff thats clear you run the risk of "fogging" up the plastic, I think Micro Scale makes a product called Crystal clear, and theirs other stuff out their, or you could use white glue

MU hoses, or anything thats not the same color as the bulk of the painting, may be wise to instal afterwards, It can reduce the amount of fuss involved in, in masking or painting.

Hope I was of some help, or at least was able to point you in the right direction.

Anders

Nanaimo, BC Canada

[rf*geep]

One of the best I've seen! Nice work!

Sam.

[remhed]

Thanks for the feedback so far! D'oh on the uncoupling levers. Those were a nightmare to install too. Oh well I'll need to get them right.
As for the stanchions, here's the prototype i am modeling:
www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=2143965
Based on that pic the stanchions I have look right to me?

[soda]

Yes based on the photo, I do believe the sides of your unit at present have the correct stanchions, but now the ends have the old style stanchions.

Anders

[CP_8530]

In addition to the stepwell filing, you may have to file the bottom of the sides of the shell on the inside for it to clear the frame. The giant mofo of a weight will have to go, unless you want to mill that narrower (not an easy task).

[remhed]

May 19, 2012 22:55:27 GMT -5 @macjet said:

Steve,

Great thread. I have the same kit though mine is still in the box. I was hoping to get it done before Athearn releases their's but it doesn't appear that will happen. Mine has already been sitting for five years.

Good luck on this. I'm looking forward to seeing additional updates.

Jacob

Sent from my ADR6350 using ProBoards

Jacob,

Mine has been sitting for at least that long. I think I have 3 GP10 kits and 2 or 3 GP8 kits. I was hoping Kaslo was going to do a GP11 but they apparently went out of business? He was asking the ICG guys about doing that a few years back. I've learned that if there is a kit you think you might want to build one day, you need to get it now. I missed out on the IC electric highliner kits and now there are now more in stock (I forget the company who made them).

Thanks for the comments,

Steve

[iomalley]

Kaslo's not out of business, they just don't have a master builder on staff anymore.

Jacob, why are you throwing your money away? You've already paid for your kit, may as well build it! It'll save you an outlay of $200 (by the time Athearn releases it) and give you some mad skills and bragging rights over the douche(s) at the club that bought their GP8s!!

Anybody can BUY their sh*t, this is the DD afterall!

[shoofly]

May 22, 2012 17:08:12 GMT -5 @modelmaker51 said:

We all like CA because it sets fast which allows us to keep moving along, but it's not always the best adhesive for the job. when it comes to attaching the wire to the stantions, well, we all know that soldering them is the strongest method, but not all of us have the skill or a good soldering iron yet to do the job, so we go to the next best; glue. Usually it's CA because it's quick and pretty strong. However, CA is weak in shear and shock strength!

I agree about using Microscale's Kristal Klear for the numberboards, windshields and light lenses. An alternative (and maybe easier to get) is Testors Canopy glue. Do not use regular Elmer's type white glue as it gets brittle when it dries and parts will pop off sooner or later.

You might really want to try another microscale adhesive called microbond. It has shear strength and will out perform any hobby CA. I've used it for handrails and roofwalks. As a modeling tool, it really changed and enhanced how i build kits. I've completely stopped using barge for metal to styrene. Clear styrene bonds i use canopy cement. Styrene to styrene bonds MEK still works the best. ABS/metal/styrene substrates I just use microbond.

[remhed]

May 22, 2012 17:08:12 GMT -5 @modelmaker51 said:

That's steel wire (aka music wire) that you used on the side which is why it was hard to bend and it doesn't allow 2nd chances when it comes to bending! As someone else mentioned, use phosforbronze wire from Tichy. A trick with PB wire; you can heat the area that you want to rebend with a lighter until it's red hot (only takes a few seconds), this will soften the wire, you can then bend it several times until you get it right. I have not found this to affect the overall sturdiness of the whole hand rail.

We all like CA because it sets fast which allows us to keep moving along, but it's not always the best adhesive for the job. when it comes to attaching the wire to the stantions, well, we all know that soldering them is the strongest method, but not all of us have the skill or a good soldering iron yet to do the job, so we go to the next best; glue. Usually it's CA because it's quick and pretty strong. However, CA is weak in shear and shock strength. The solution is to use 5min. epoxy, it has good shear and shock strength and once cured (24hrs) it will hold just as well if not better than CA. The one drawback of course is the 5 minutes it takes to set. I use small alligator clips (The copper ones from RS that come in a bag of 10 or 20 - i can't remember as I have so many, they're very useful and cheap). as I apply a small drop of glue to each stantion, position the wire and adjust the stantion for staightness, clip on the alligator clip and move to the next one, etc. Let it cure for at least an hour before removing the clips, (in a sort of twisting/squeezing motion), be carefull handeling until cured (24hrs) after that they should be strong enough to handle anything short of a major disaster - the handrails will be the least of your worries in that case!

I agree about using Microscale's Kristal Klear for the numberboards, windshields and light lenses. An alternative (and maybe easier to get) is Testors Canopy glue. Do not use regular Elmer's type white glue as it gets brittle when it dries and parts will pop off sooner or later.

Lastly, on the upside down coupler lift bars: To remove the bars with minimum damage, try slicing the plastic bracket ring open with a single edge razor blade. Slice down to the metal bar and try to bend the ring back enough so the bar can be pulled out, flip it around and reinsert closing the rings as you go. then add a tiny drop of CA and as you do close the ring up with some tweezers and hold until the glue sets, repeat for each bracket and you should be good to go.

An advanced or master modeler is not someone who can build a model without mistakes, but rather a modeler who can fix mistakes so no one can tell.

BTW, great work so far. uncle Jay.

Jay - thanks for the input. The idea for the coupler lift bars is a good one, but the brackets I used were the metal ones that came with the Kaslo kit. I went through and removed them all and re attached them right side up. That took some time, but I wanted it to be right.

I also replaced the handrail stanchions on the ends with the ones that came with the kit. I got some of the Tichy wire for the handrails on the end. I soldered them to the stanchions which was much easier than I expected. I thought about replacing all of the handrails with the Tichy wire as they are far from perfect, but the CA bonds on most of them was pretty good and I didn't want to destroy the stanchions so it is what it is.

The model is just about ready for paint now. I am not 100% happy with it, but it is pretty good for my first go round. Some of the glue is messy and the handrails aren't quite what I would like.

I will say that I have been messing with the P2K weight that comes with the GP7 drive and I am going to end up removing about 50% of it. There are parts of it that would make it impossible for the shell to sit down nice on the drive.

I'm going to paint some junk shell I have laying around first to get some practice as this will also be my first real custom paint job!

For the horn, I have the Details Associates (I think that's the one) Nathan P3 / P5 kit. I have played a bit with one of them and it seems like that is going to be near impossible to build and get to look decent. If anyone has any suggestions on how to build that, or if there is a brass one available, let me know.

I'll attach some pics of where it stands. Im open to any final comments or suggestions before it goes to paint (hopefully next weekend).

Thanks,

Steve

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Here's the back.

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side

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side

[zakc]

A couple of things I have found work:
1) I have begun using Gator Glue for my PE parts it holds quite well and a 2oz bottle lasts quite a while it has a longer working time then CA when putting in new steps and large sections of tread plate or small parts.
2) you mentioned drilling the large holes for new fans; some time back in one of the threads somebody mentioned using Step Drill Bits for drilling out fan holes; Well I tried it and boy it worked great, I picked up a set cheap at Harbor Freight tools.
3) Testors Clear parts Cement or Hypo Cement for the glass.

[zakc]

Project looks great