thoughts / idea's / suggestions new focus

[Deleted]

okay as most of you know I had issues with my Indian Rock name and it's subsid's this has led me to a lot of thinking scratching my head and just plain trying to get past the IR Days and finally put it to rest.

so here is what I have as of now and would like to run it by ya'll to get some thoughts ect ect I found a bunch of  T.C.C. Turtle Creek Central decals I had stashed and forgot about so this got me to thinking anyone can model it to meet their goals I decided the TCC bought out the following roads IR, KT&G, WAA, WV&O during the depression of the early to mid 30's as these roads were struggling to survive to form the current 1959 era TCC which runs from pittsburg to florida + pittsburg to Michigan also serving the lower gulf coast more details to still be worked out on states and industries served.

so a lot of coal, steel products, finished metal products more to figure out

I will also be modifying the tcc decals via highball graphics to meet my needs and also to make my version of the TCC mine

so let the beatings begin I mean thoughts and idea's begin

i'm also still trying to work out a paint scheme that has my idea's in the paint style

thanks for any and all help you can offer

[georgiaroad]

I will chime in with an opinion based on your ideas. The TCC is a neat name for a shortline, but I wonder about a regional or class one that pretty much covers the whole Eastern Seaboard having such a limited scope of a name. I struggled with the same issues with the Georgia Road. How would a railroad named after a state really become a multi-state welter-weight modern Class One. Like you, it started with a railroad called the Central Georgia Southern. This was a spin-off of NS of the Central of Georgia lines, similar to that of the W&LE sale that actually happened. But why the Georgia Road? Georgia Road is really not the railroad's true name. Georgia Road is the nickname of the Georgia Road Transportation holding company that actually owns all the roads that make the full system, of which the Central Georgia Southern was the first. The Alabama Interstate was added, then the FEC, and just like KCS, the purchase of the IC lines tripled the size of the road literally overnight. Later additions were DME-ICE and the TXE, a conglomeration of branches that connected the Georgia Road to several other Western roads to reach terminals on the California and Washington- Oregon coast.

Would it be better to cast the TCC as a regional during the 1950s with connections that move traffic to and from its center through other connections? You picked a great era, and likely what I would consider the golden age of modern railroads when they were still growing traffic. Just like Allen McClelland's V&O, you could represent the Florida traffic in the form of connection trains running through to the heart of the TCC.I would look closely at the way the V&O operates or even the AM of Tony K. The mega system you are trying to design for the time period really did not exist on the prototype. There were trains moving those distances between industrial centers you mentioned, but it was a joint effort. By making the TCC a reasonable sized cog in the larger machine, you can create a modelable area.

For instance, As large as the system is for the Georgia Road, I picked a choke point near Birmingham, AL as the modeled portion. It has some export coal being mined, some heavy industry around greater Birmingham, but for the most part is rural. I wish I had a full plan complete, but it is basically a folded dogbone with a staging in the center. I picked a local yard to model opposite the large classification yard in Irondale. It is geared to locals on the west side and the automotive plants to the east and west of it. I wanted transfers and heavy switching so the yard has transfer runs come out of staging and come to the yard, swap blocks and return to staging. They come from the big class yard across town and that is how I represent connections not only with Georgia Road but the other class ones. The yard does some reclassification and building of locals, one of which is the feature local L26 that works the industry on the modeled main line. It works a few industrial concerns near the yard, then goes west to work a couple of automotive suppliers, a chipping mill and a couple of log loading. The IC brings in a lot of intermodal, chemicals and even Powder River Coal off the DME connection. They are represented by the parade of trains that meet each other over the rural half of the layout. There is a helper station, mainly because of the curvature and grade of the mainline that once was simply an L&N branch that was used to build a mainline connection between the original Georgia Road and the IC lines. Mexican traffic shows up in the form of a train full of FXE and TFM cars with a mix of GARD and FXE power. The local yard modeled has a remote control job to do switching as it takes cars from the locals and switchers and turns them into transfers to the big class yard across town or local Class one collections. It is also the location of a mainline fuel pad where the Powder River Coal trains are serviced. The main locomotive shop is at the big yard across town, but this local yard does have a satellite facility to service the coal trains from the Powder River and those pulling from the nearby Blue Creek coal seam for export out of Mobile, AL.

The advantage you have is the time period has a lot more loose carload traffic, so you can have a robust collection of industry and team tracks to feed your trains. You also have regular passenger, something I cannot have other than a cameo of the Amtrak Crescent running out of staging, through the local yard into a junction which takes it right back to staging. The TCC would be a large presence even in a small system. What if it connected the Seaboard or the N&W to mills in Ohio and forwarded traffic headed to Chicago from the Southeast. The cars on the train would tip off the actual destination and origination of the traffic. You could model as much of the larger roster you want. Georgia Road has a couple thousand locomotives. I can model a few of the ones I want that would work the locals, transfers and yards. Then add road power coming through on coal trains and manifests.

This is just my opinion and is meant to encourage you to think out of the box. It is easy to sew together a large system, but does it really create the feel you want, and if so, can you effectively model a portion of it that can capture the flavor of the bigger picture. Put yourself in the shoes of a railfan looking over your railroad on a daily basis. He would be limited to a few dozen miles around his home. Yet he could get a feel for the larger system by the look of each train. The main reason I wanted to go big in the concept was because I wanted a modern roster with a good mix of power. I wanted to project the feel of a large system, but only capture a short section, however a critical one. Looking at the Milwaukee Road or the Rock Island gave me reason to keep the Georgia Road name. The slick modern paint and graphics give it the feel of a large corporate railroad. The TCC seems to lack that. Maybe the TC System? I still like the idea of a shortline or regional that just happens to be a good connection for overhead traffic--say a Clinchfield or maybe a RF&P.

Again, I am just thinking out loud. If I challenge you to think twice, I have done what I set out to do. If you think twice and stay the course you set, then I salute you in that endeavor also. I went through a lot of roads to get to my finished concept. It started out as the Stephens Creek Industrial RR (SCIR). That name does not project the sleek Class One that I wanted. It was limiting. I did everything I could to work around that name, but it just did not suit my concept.

Wish you the best!

H in AL

[acollins]

I agree with the points Georgiaroad put out there. I followed a similar train of thought when I started planning my freelance, but I went the opposite way.

I wanted a smaller line so I could focus on being able to model as much, if not all of the locomotives on the roster. 20 was my limit, and I feel I have achieved that.

In my case originally wanted to model a mega system, but space, time and budget where hampering that idea. So the small, shortline like model is what worked out for me.

In the end, as the famous saying goes, its your railway. As long as your having fun, that is all that matters.

I agree with the regional idea, something like a DT&I or GTW, but that's just my two cents :-).

Alex

[Deleted]

thanks Hank & Alex you really got me to thinking about the size & situation of the railroads back then in the 1950's and your truly correct as to what you stated about the TCC and the thoughts I had.

so after some thinking & more thinking I ended up looking at the 60's era which I think will work much better as there were a lot of mergers including the ill starred PC merger the bn mega merger of march 1970th n&w taking over the Wabash & nkp the Erie & the DL&W merging to for erie Lackawanna giving me reason to have a bigger system as planned.

yes it means I may lose most of my passenger services but at least i'll be able to do what I need to do I hope so what would your opinions be to me moving into the late 60's era Hank/Alex

[acollins]

If you wish to maintain the larger system, then moving into the mid to late sixtys would better yet in my opinion.

You would get to maintain some of your passenger services, plus still use early first generation power, as well as brand new second generation units as well. It would also allow you to have units from all three builders.

If you model a freshly merged system, you would have the ability to have several paint schemes, which may or may not have benefits.

You could do one of two things, you could take two real world class 1s of the day and make a fictional merger with them. Say a GM&O merger with the L&N, just a suggestion, not saying that would work. Or you can take several made up railways and do a made up merger.

I suggest making a list of the types of traffic you would like to see on your layout, which area you would like to model, equipment may or may not be a factor. Then move forward and figure out a name, and make a history up, then a roster, and so on. At least that's how I came up with the EO&Q.

Maybe Hank has another view, but that's how I would (and did) start.

Alex

[c415rock]

Hi Guys and Vince,

 Here is my two cents. 

I agree the Turtle Creek Central dose not sound like a major rail system,but with that said Nether dose the New York Central. I think you guys are thinking to much in the now and not back in the time period Vince is trying to model. If you look at the New York Central as a model to compare what Vince is trying to do. It matches up well except for the fact it runs much further north and west than what Vince intended. The NYC ran to Montreal, Boston, NYC, Mackinaw City MI, St Louis,Peoria,Cairo IL, Louisville, Charleston WV, Pittsburgh, Central PA, Chicago, Indianapolis, Cincinnati, and Cleveland. Just to name a few and show the large area they covered. You would have to agree the New York Central really dose not describe the area. Just like the Turtle Creek Central dose not describe the area Vince is talking about.

The New York Central was the Parent road then there was the New York Central System which were all the Subsidiaries PL&E, MC, B&A, P&E, IHB, and CR&I. These were roads that the NYC had a major controlling interest in and help make up the vast NYC empire.  So Vince could have The Turtle Creek Central can also have a TCC system, just like the New York Central did.  So a plausible back story is the Turtle Creek Central as the parent road and purchased controlling interest in the financially strapped IR, KT&G, WAA, WV&O all operate under the Turtle Creek Central System. 

 Under this story line the TCC can run in all the areas Vince first described.  This way Vince can chose to model what ever area he want to of the TCC. Just like if he were modeling a major class one, you can't model the entire system. So you pick a area that you like the most and go with it.  Just like my Warren Bay route runs from NYC to Chicago, I can't model it all. So I will be modeling the area that is most appealing to me.

Erik 

[Randy Earle]

My River Run, Coshocton, and Southern was bought out by the Wheeling & Lake Erie. I've got the Wheeling bug.

[acollins]

Just a little clarification, I have no issues with the name. As most names in today's world and in the past as Erik points out don't necessarily represent the roads operating area.

I was merely suggesting era and size ideas.

Alex

[Deleted]

Erik & everyone you all bring up very good points about the name still need to do more thinking/research as the Illinois Central name same as the nyc doesn't sound like a rr name but then it's there so back to the drawing board and i'm not trying to be as big as the nyc or prr just a moderate sized class 1 for the time period like I stated this is why I was and am thankful for your idea's suggestions ect ect as it is keeping me at a realistic level still trying to decide if I want 1950's passenger trains or 1960's mail trains I found a lot of 2nd generation power gp30/35's and sd40/45's in undec that I had stored in a tub that we forgot we had in our heated storage units because if I were to do the mail trains my heavyweights would become mail storage and rider cars my passenger trains would become a baggage,3-5 passenger cars 2-5 mail storage boxcars so i'm brain stuck right at the moment

Randy I was wondering what happened to those blue alco's of yours

[Randy Earle]

Feb 15, 2014 16:58:41 GMT -5 @ir1799 said:

Erik & everyone you all bring up very good points about the name still need to do more thinking/research as the Illinois Central name same as the nyc doesn't sound like a rr name but then it's there so back to the drawing board and i'm not trying to be as big as the nyc or prr just a moderate sized class 1 for the time period like I stated this is why I was and am thankful for your idea's suggestions ect ect as it is keeping me at a realistic level still trying to decide if I want 1950's passenger trains or 1960's mail trains I found a lot of 2nd generation power gp30/35's and sd40/45's in undec that I had stored in a tub that we forgot we had in our heated storage units because if I were to do the mail trains my heavyweights would become mail storage and rider cars my passenger trains would become a baggage,3-5 passenger cars 2-5 mail storage boxcars so i'm brain stuck right at the moment

Randy I was wondering what happened to those blue alco's of yours



They are patiently waiting in their original Rivorossi boxes hoping to go to work some day.

[Deleted]

sleeper cell alcos uh we better be carful hahahahaha