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Post by Deleted on Aug 24, 2013 18:26:52 GMT -5
I am making some changes to my roster.
Since this is my community and all in it I consider friends as if we were all sitting around talking trains, modeling or whatever. So I would like to bounce this off the group for some input.
For those that have followed my adventure into protofreelancing, you understand I am trying to create a very believeable and realistic scanerio. I understand it is my railroad and I can do whatever I want with it, but I have set myself some prototype standards that I want to strictly adhere to. On eof those standards is to not be outlandish with my locomotive fleet. I'll explain what I mean about being "outlandish" in a moment.
My locomotive fleet is based on what I have seen with what shortlines do and by talking to a few people who work for short lines and who also work for the class ones. I am sticking with EMD due to the reliability factor as wll as the parts factor. EMD seems to be the industry standard whrn it comes to used locomotives. I chose the SD40-2 because in todays railroading there are many on the used market. I have set strict standards for what prototype locomotives I allow myself to model (my railroad to purchase). They have to fit into these categories.
1. No longer work for a Class 1 railroad. 2. Be owned by a leaseing company. 3. No longer in service or have been scrapped.
So I look for photos of locomotives that in the leasing sections of photo archives.
Now what I mean about being to "outlandish". Most of my models are straight SD40-2's Out of the 12 6 axle locomotives, 8 of them are a variation of the standard SD40-2. A couple snoots and three unique ones being the ex QNS&L units. One is a tunnel motor which I do not consider unusual and call it a tandard SD40-2. I have three slots to fill. Unit #501 is going to be the SDP45. I consider this one an unusual locomotive. Unit #507 is going to be an ex Hammersley Iron SD50S. I consider this one to be unusual. The slot for unit #508 is not filled yet. I was considering a rebuild of a model I had done in the past being the NREX "PORCH MASTER" #9402. The SD45T-2 that had the Southern SD40-2 hood put on it creating the rather large back porch. This I would definitley consider an unusual locomotive.
So would having this many oddball locomotives in such a small fleet be considered unrealistic and outlandish? I am a stickler for realism in my modeling. The CSR is a very important project for me and I want it to be right.
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Post by MitchGDRMCo on Aug 24, 2013 18:58:24 GMT -5
I wouldn't think so (on being outlandish), more a happy coincidence imo. I thought Utah Ry got all the ex Hamersley SD50S'?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 24, 2013 19:29:00 GMT -5
They did, but they were first owned by NREX. So they fall in my category of fair game.
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Post by MitchGDRMCo on Aug 24, 2013 19:41:05 GMT -5
Fair enough!
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Post by Randy Earle on Aug 24, 2013 21:09:35 GMT -5
How about some old SD9/18/24/26? Maybe this is your chance to throw in a couple SD-30s?
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Post by emd16645 on Aug 24, 2013 23:12:48 GMT -5
To throw in my couple of cents, let me refer you to my backyard railroad, Pan Am Railways (formerly Guilford). A couple of years back they purchased a set of 20 SD40-2s from Helm. Of this group, there is a SD40 carbody, several SD40-2s, including a GMD built and a snoot, some SD45s and a few SD45-2s, all of varying heritage. Also, prior to this purchase, they had leased a number of SD40-2 types, including some ex-QNSL units. A lot of variety for just over 20 locomotives.
Such a purchase for a shoreline like the Copper State RR would be very possible. The ex-EL SDP45 would easily fit this category. The SD50S might be a bit more of a stretch, but is definitely plausible. A logical addition somewhere to the fleet would be an SD45 carbody. My personal favorite would be a CP SD40-2F, unfortunately these are still with CP and not on the general lease market (although the ex-CN SD50Fs are, would that be an option for you?)
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c415rock
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Post by c415rock on Aug 25, 2013 1:22:45 GMT -5
HI Brian,
I think your scenario is very plausible. A short line with odd units is almost a must. They tend to do more with less, in my opinion. Most locomotives are purchased at auction. So I would think that most class one's would pass on the odd balls at auction if they were going to purchase them for HP or rebuilds. So that would leave the odd balls to the short lines for a fair price. If you take a look at most regional short lines they all roaster some sort of odd ball loco's. For example Ohio Central, Minnesota Commercial, Reading Northern, Detroit & Mackinaw, Delaware Blacksnake, Montana Rail Link and Utah Railway. Just to name a few.
Erik
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Post by oldrail on Aug 25, 2013 2:09:13 GMT -5
I think the Porch Master would be a good choice. Looking at your roster from the bean counters perspective the tunnel motor is the odd ball. It has a different cooling system than the others which equals different parts and skill set away from the rest of the fleet. Per Randy's suggestion a couple of low hp, non turbo, SD type for things like work trains, way freight, special moves, etc. SD38-2's would be logical, my personal is the SD9 or 18.
Dick Haave
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Post by Randy Earle on Aug 25, 2013 4:53:14 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2013 9:23:38 GMT -5
Thanks. This is all really good input. I do have some 4 axle power in my roster for local jobs. GP38's and rebuilt GP35's into GP38-3's and a couple GP39-2's. I am sticking with the 40-2 theme for my mainline stuff. The 40-2 is the jack of all trades for my rialroad. My concern was that adding a few of these really oddball locomotives was not out of the ordinary.
Dick, great point about the tunnel motor. Thanks. The more I learn about railroading, the more I understand what my railroad can justify having. Or how big or small the fleet needs to be.
Brian
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Post by Canadian Atlantic Railway on Aug 25, 2013 9:33:32 GMT -5
You could still go with the SD50S and rebuild it along the same line as NS did with their SD50 fleet converting them into 3000hp SD40E's.
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Post by 1fatrussian on Aug 25, 2013 13:38:41 GMT -5
Brian,
All you have to do is take a look at the area you are modeling, the fleets of Copper Basin and the Arizona Eastern. Their rosters are both varied, AZER even has a few GE's floating around Lordsburg NM in the new G&W scheme, you definitely can't miss them, I've seen four unit consists dragging less than a dozen cars around. Arizona Eastern really has a lot going for it in terms of variety, I can remember seeing an ex UP unit up in Miami, AZ around 20 years ago and have seen it from time to time still in the same paint when I am up there. AZER bought whatever it could get, not sure how that may have changed over the years with all the buyouts though, I have even seen Texas and New Mexico SD90's going from Lordsburg NM to Bowie AZ as well. Point it, go with whatever you think would look right, because here in Arizona it would probably happen. (And by the way, I think an ex-ATSF SD45-2 would look pretty cool in CSR colors, just sayin.)
Eric S.
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Post by stevef45 on Aug 25, 2013 20:04:11 GMT -5
I say do the porch monster again!! Or do a SD40-2B, a former NW/NS unit with welded up windows.
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Post by spshastaroute on Aug 25, 2013 22:41:51 GMT -5
Brian. I think that NREX loco is about the coolest thing ever, but to me it falls in the outlandish category. Have you considered ex SP SD40M-2's? Not sure their current disposition, but if they fit your standards, you could get some 40-2's with SD45 car bodies. That seems pretty cool by me. No matter what you go with, it will be fabulous, I'm sure.
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Post by lostinthe619 on Aug 26, 2013 4:44:57 GMT -5
Brian, you could also pick up the standard SD60's that CP is now trying to part ways with as well if that's not too big for your railroad. While CN seems to be putting their former OKWY's to work, CP for some reason is dumping theirs (provided they can find a buyer) including the recent upgraded ones.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2013 8:09:01 GMT -5
All this information is great. I really do appreciate the input.
lostinthe619. The SD60's are to expensive for the railroad to purchase. Need to stay on the cheap side. I do nto think the SD60's would be very cost effective for a small railroad.
Mike. As much as I want to build the NREX "Porch Master", I have to agree with you. It is to unique and most likely unrealistic that my railroad would buy it. Again, you are correct that there are loads of SD40/45 rebuilds available that would be a great match for the SD40-2's. I have a Kato SD40 that I can use in place of the NREX unit. One, OK two really unique units are all I want to have on my roster and. Those being the SDP45 and the SD50S. The rest will be the standard SD40-2. I consider the tunnel motor a standard 40-2.
On another front, I want to thank the person who suggested using the 100T Greenville hopper for hauling the concentrate. I finally put this to bed. It appears that there is no known transportation law that requires copper concentrate to be hauled in closed cars or containers. Not even in California. So it is OK to use open top hoppers. I am going to settle on the Greenville car. I would like to use the low side ore gon, but it has one draw back. The load is too exposed. With the chances of strong desert winds, the load needs to stay in place and not have the top portions lost to the wind. The Greenville hoppers remedy this because they will be only loaded half way which leaves a high side to protect the loads.
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Post by MitchGDRMCo on Aug 26, 2013 8:57:31 GMT -5
Depends where you look and what you consider 'cheap'. www.ozarkmountainrailcar.com/index_rw.aspwww.sterlingrail.com/classifieds/Listings.php?type=Locomotive&fsw=FSAs you can see at Sterling Rail there's 7 SD40-2 rebuilds available, quoted price is $165000-175000, meanwhile you could get those 4 SD90MAC-Hs listed at Ozark Mountain for $130000 a pop. Instead of going for the 'cash strapped' option the better idea would be looking at what would benefit the RR most. This mainly boils down to fuel costs, commodity hauled and operational efficiency. Simply put in fuel savings alone per hp/ton or hp/mile the SD60 trumps the SD40-2 and would pay itself back in less fuel consumption and less maintenance (longer cycles between shopping and greater availability). Being that CSRR hauls a heavy commodity the SD60 would be the best choice of used locomotive for the copper trains vs the SD40-2, then again "it's your railroad". Shortlines like MRL, IAIS, INRD etc jumped on the new high hp power in the last 10 years and have enjoyed great success going that route, MRL even purchased 2 more new SD70ACes this year from the fuel savings achieved by their other 16 SD70ACes. Fictionally I'm in a slightly different boat to you Brian so I can't really use my own RR as an example but I would suggest the SD60s, even if there's only enough to run the copper trains with SD40-2 backup, than going all out on 40-2s. The company's bottom line will thank you in the end.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2013 9:35:55 GMT -5
All points well taken and the depth of explanation is fantastic! Thanks.
I guess I have to step back a little and explain also that my railroad started in 1996. At that time the SD60's and 70's were not available as they are today. All my power was purchased prior to 2000. I have to work all that in, but that is my scenario.
As the railroad grows though, I can look at replacement power. That being said, then the SD60's and the 70's might just fit in.
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Post by MitchGDRMCo on Aug 26, 2013 9:40:57 GMT -5
I think the best option is to look at the SD60s as time moves on, I'd even be looking at fleet replacements or additions sooner than later personally. Tho this is mostly me thinking from an operations point of view....
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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2013 9:43:34 GMT -5
gdrmco,
Your input is great. Maybe I should start loading up on some SD60's and maybe some 70's and put them aside for when I feel like updating. This way I will have them when I am ready. That is a great idea.
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