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Post by chessie77 on Nov 1, 2012 22:24:27 GMT -5
:)I've been changing my ideas for modeling my own railroad. I was going to call it the Ashland Coal and Iron but someone pointed out it sounded to much like an industrial railroad. I thought about it and have deside to go back to a name I was using before, the Ohio Valley Railway. While doing this I started thinking about having commuter operations such as at St. Louis or at Chicago. I don't know if I will actualy model these operations but the idea of a commuter engine showing up in a consist wou be interesting( ala the EL and their U34CHs). So I have thought about a Chessie System commuter paint scheme. I am wanting something different than the standard Chessie an not the C&O Tri-color. I found a picture of the Chessie's business train from te late 70's or early 80's, an the look caught my eye. So here are 8 different ideas based upon the real Chessie that I have come up with. The first 4 are basic blue with vermillion and yellow stripes and large yellow Chessie System. The next 4 have the stripes matching the ones from the passenger cars and have various treatments of the Chessie System name as well as placement. Let me know what you all think. I appreciate all advice and comments and new ideas also.
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sgoti
Chairman
Posts: 459
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Post by sgoti on Nov 1, 2012 23:22:03 GMT -5
Well, for starters, you might want to use another image format besides Paint Shop Pro. I can't open it, others might be having same issues.
(JPEG would probably be your best option.)
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Post by chessie77 on Nov 2, 2012 5:04:14 GMT -5
:-[Sorry for the original posting of the picture . Here it is in JPEG format.
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Post by jmlaboda on Nov 2, 2012 5:51:23 GMT -5
When I first saw the subject I happened to think about the late Chessie blue, yellow and vermillion scheme used on business cars... sure would be a sharp scheme !!! I have shots of two of the rebuilt Army hospital ward cars that were rebuilt for business train use as pix for my Google Screensaver simply because I love this scheme so very much... rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=2831653rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=2831654Walthers has offered modernized heavyweight coaches based on the B&O cars that were modernized and they could be a good starting point. Also the C&O had a number of their PS 52-seat coaches still on the roster after Amtrak's start up so you might want to think about these as well for your commuter operation (albeit most of the cars would have to have their corrugation removed). One or two with corrugation could also be included, with the scheme being modified as shown on C&O 15... sd45.com/chessie/pages/xchessieobservation.htmHeavyweight and lightweight cab cars could be done similar to what the CNJ and PaTrain did (the PaTrain cab cars had generators behind the operating cab which would allow for power not having the equipment to provide for HEP to be used), so that it won't be necessary to turn the locomotive or consist at the end of their run... rr-fallenflags.org/njdot/njt-cc1320kga.jpgrailpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=118259Oh... the scheme I would vote for... the top right with the outlined Chessie System lettering and herald.
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Post by puddlejumper on Nov 2, 2012 7:50:30 GMT -5
I like them all... but one thing that I wonder is would the Chessie use a paint scheme for commuter service that is visually less striking than their freight scheme? I find the yellow Chessie scheme is brighter and more attention getting than the blue scheme... and would think that the RR would swap them, the blue for freight, the yellow for passenger. Just my $.02 Dave
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Post by slowfreight on Nov 2, 2012 8:24:25 GMT -5
What's your time period? Around 1985, Caltrain purged the SP bilevel fleet, so maybe you could add a few of those mixed in with the single-level cars. And it might be more interesting if you didn't have cab cars. Maybe use old F or FA units as cab control cars like MARC, LIRR, and GO Transit, plus a mix of single-level and bilevel cars, pulled by U34CH's.
I think it would be really interesting if the fleet looked a little cobbled and rag-tag, like a commuter line that's funded a little by some transit authority--just enough so Chessie can't kill it, bettert than Chessie's South Shore trains, and not enough to be modernized and fancy.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Nov 2, 2012 11:00:22 GMT -5
:-[Sorry for the original posting of the picture . Here it is in JPEG format. Wow! I love all of these You know between you and RoyalBlue72 I could be converted to be a Chessie modeller! On the left, any except the bottom would look good. The bottom left is a bit bland for commuter ops I think. On the right I would choose the third from top. I love the top two but feel at a distance the lettering becomes lost in all the colours despite the outlines. I might however, have to keep these colours in mind for a future project, I love em'!
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Post by chessie77 on Nov 2, 2012 18:25:52 GMT -5
;DThanks for the imput. The time frame for my railroad was originally set at 1977 to 1979, but I have moved it back to 1975 to 1976 as I still want a few cab units on the roster. The Ohio Valley dieselized with FA1s, FA2s and FM C-liners. All the FA1s and C-liners are gone but a few FA2s and the passenger FPA2s and FPA4s are still around in commuter service. I've been thinking about having cab control cars on one end of any train I would make. I would be using Alco FA1s or FA2s. The new power would be U34CHs. The cars I've thought of using would be C&O style coaches with a few bi-level cars from P-S or Budd. The OV was upgrading its commuter fleet in the late 50s and eary 60s, but with the closer ties with the C&O in 1963 along with the B&O, the upgrading was limited to using the C&O style coaches. The bi-levels would have cab cars but I would need something for he standard cars. The C&O aquired control of the OV in 1923 and moved for complete conrol in 1934 but was put off until 1949, even then the OV remained semi-independent keeping its name and buying its own motive power (Alco and FM until 1956) and just used the same paint as the C&O for locomotives and passenger cars. Its passenger cars were mainly P-S following C&O practice. The OV passenger service was mainly extentions of the C&O trains from Ashland, Ky to St. Louis but with trains also from St. Louis to Chicago, Detroit, Kansas City and Memphis. Also on train ran in conjunction with the B&O from Pittsburgh to Memphis. There were other runs that used RDCs. All the trains were gone with Amtrak except a extention of the GW/JWR/Cardinal from Ashland to St. Louis and maybe a St. Louis to Chicago run. The commuter service is all that remains of the passenger operations. I haven't decided which paint scheme to do yet for the new U34CHs which arrived in 1975. After I decide which one I like best or maybe modified with imput form someone here I will do a FPA2 or FPA4 drawing in the new scheme to see how it will look. Also the Ches-c on the nose of the locomotive will match up with the lettering on the side of the locomotive. Thanks for all the imput so far, all ideas are appreciated. I'm trying to keep it as reasonablely prototypical and realistic as possible.
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Post by chessie77 on Nov 3, 2012 23:07:41 GMT -5
:)These are what I am thinking of for the OV RDC paint schemes pre-Chessie System and then commuter. Let me know what you think.
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catt
Superintendent
Posts: 155
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Post by catt on Nov 4, 2012 16:13:40 GMT -5
I like both versions,but the lower one makes me want to go buy a RDC and paint it up accordingly.
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Post by chessie77 on Nov 4, 2012 16:48:09 GMT -5
;DThanks, I've always thought that RDCs needed more color, so that's what I've done.
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Post by simulatortrain on Nov 5, 2012 12:24:17 GMT -5
Gotta say, I really like that Chessie RDC concept, and I like the U-boat on the bottom left the best. Probably not what would've happened if there was a special commuter scheme, maybe more a 1980s scheme simplification.
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Post by royalblue72 on Nov 6, 2012 9:34:43 GMT -5
I love these. I also like the Chessie Business train and the #1 paint scheme would be my choice. The RDCs are great too.
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Post by chessie77 on Nov 7, 2012 21:59:44 GMT -5
:DThanks Royalblue for the comments, I am leaning towards the first scheme on the U-boats too. But I haven't made my mind up yet. Here are some of the ideas applied to the FPA4s tha would be in the commuter service also. Let me know what you guys think.
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Post by chessie77 on Nov 7, 2012 23:35:50 GMT -5
:)Here are the pre Chessie System and dedicated commuter paint schemes for the Ohio Valley. Comments and opinions are welcome, thanks.
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Post by chessie77 on Nov 7, 2012 23:38:35 GMT -5
:-[Oops, posted the wrong picture, here's the right one.
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Post by slowfreight on Nov 8, 2012 0:07:33 GMT -5
I like the top right FA. I still like the idea of commuter trains that don't use cab cars for some reason. You might also consider steam-heated (or HEP-equipped) GP9's. Since C&O shared station space with C&NW after Grand Central closed in Chicago--and the two roads traded RDCs for half-stainless coaches--I think it makes sense for OV to follow practices somewhere half way between EL and C&NW.
I also really like the idea of mixing bilevel and single-level equipment in the same commuter trains...maybe have 2 bilevels, a single level coach or two, and an FA power car pulled by a U34CH. Or, you could do the same consist without the FA, and have it pulled by a royal-blue HEP-equipped (a la C&NW, delivered that way by EMD) GP9 that's about to get rotated permanently into the freight pool when the second order of U34's arrive.
When LIRR first kicked its FAs into cab car service, they kept the 244 prime movers and were almost completely intact. At some point the 244 was replaced with a smaller Cummins or Detroit package, but it means you don't have to do a lot of mods to make cab cars. Alternately, you could blank most of the grills, fans, etc., and add 2 muffler-type exhaust silencers and a pair of EMD 36" cooling fans like the Rock, C&NW, and Milwaukee all used. People would have to stare at your models for a while before they figured out what you'd done with 'em.
Definitely stick to the smooth-side cars. I don't think that you'd see OV buying Budd gallery cars--not that you can find a model anyway. Not sure if OV would be more likely to buy the SP-style window configuration or the C&NW-style...SP had a few more windows, and I think bought their last cars in 1968 or 69. C&NW and Rock went in for the same design and I think North Western made its last purchase in 1970.
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Post by royalblue72 on Nov 8, 2012 12:13:27 GMT -5
I don't know how far you want to stray from actual history, but from 1975-1976, the Washington/Baltimore commuter fleets were strictly B&O lettered RDCs and Blue & Grey coaches pulled by a Chessie or B&O royal blue GP-9 with the Torpedo Boat Air Tanks.
Of course, you are modeling the "Ohio Valley" so their Loco roster would be used. I'd be interested in seeing your roster development plan (if you have one, some of us just make it up as we go along). Is the GE unit just one that you liked for passenger service, or was it owned by the OV? I really like the FA idea. You could even run them on the front and back of the trains without ex-CNW control cabs. That's what MDOT did with the F9PH locos that the Chessie rebuilt for them. Those handled commuter service from the 1980's until the 1990's when they were replaced with the GP40WH-2 (I think).
The paint on the "Business Train" did not happen until 1983 I believe. If you expanded your era to 1977-1980, anything is possible.
Or you could do what I do and run everything you have. I even have old Tyco/Mantua Chessie painted Super 630s and C424s hanging out lettered for some obscure shortline that I devised called the Potomac & Chesapeake. They were some of my first detail projects. I took all the gearing out and run them as Dummys. I also assume on my railroad that the Chessie absorbed the CNJ, so I was actually thinking of a similar paint scheme for my Trainmasters. Chessie never had any, but I love the locomotive. Absorbing the CNJ not only gave my road access to NYC, it also gave me the Trainmaster.
Nonetheless, I'm interested in where this story ends up. It's giving me some ideas too.
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Post by chessie77 on Nov 8, 2012 13:47:58 GMT -5
:)Thanks for the input Royalblue72 and Slowfreight. I plan on using C&O style 52 seat coaches, a few with fluting, but mostly rebuilt smooth side, and a few C&O style heavyweight coaches that Atlas is putting out. I also want a few bi-level coaches and maybe a couple of bi-level cab cars also. The OV was starting to modernize the commuter operations in 1959 and bought a few train sets of bi-levels but then just started mdernizing with rebuilts coaches from it's mainline trains a they were discontinued. I only want a handful of heavyweights for special trains, etc.. I want to model 1975 - 1976 to justify some remaining FAs still in freight service, ready to be retired. I hav done a detailed roster for the OV starting with its first diesels (HH600) in 1938. Th OV was a Alco/FM railroad until 1956 when the first EMDs showed up (SD9s). The passenger service got DL109s in 1940 (2), 1941 (4), 1942 (2) and 1945 (4). Then FM Erie Builts in 1946 (4) and 1948 (4). CPA20-5 (4) and CPA24-5 (4) in 1950 and 1952 respectively finished the FMs for passenger service. The OV went back to Alco in 1952 and 1953 for PA3s (16). The OV also ordered FPA2s (16) and FPB2s (5) in 1955 for duel service. By 1957 the last FMs came (12 H24-66) and the OV was looking to replace the Erie Builts and C-Liners in passenger service. The PA also weren't performing well either, so the OV sent one DL109 and a PA3 to Alco to be rebuilt with 251s in 1957. An Erie Built and a CPA24-5 were also sent to Alco to be rebuilt along with a pair to FM. In 1958 5 more PA3s went to Alco for 2400hp 16-251s but no more FMs. In 1959 the OV ordered 4 FPA4/FPB4/FPA4 sets from Alco and 4 FP9/F9B/FP9 sets from EMD to replace all the remaining FMs in passenge service, they were regeared for freight service. The unrebuilt DL109s were also removed from service. The remaining PA3s were rebuilt in kind keeping their 16-244s. In 1960 and 1961 the FPA2s were rebuilt with 12-251s and rated at 2000hp. The FPA4s were similiarly rerated to 2000hp. In 1960 the OV ordered a variant of the FL9 with a HEP unit in the rear and large fuel tanks. They only ordered 6 but with the closer ties with the C&O by then no more were ordered. The non 251 PAs were retired with the advent of Amtrak. OF t rebuilt PAs 3 are still used for company trains. The OV wants to convert all the remaining commuter to HEP so they ordered U34CHs (10) in 1975. They are similiar to the U36Cs delivered in 1974. This is were the OV stands for now.
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Post by royalblue72 on Nov 8, 2012 13:57:44 GMT -5
Great Concept!
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