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Post by iomalley on Feb 13, 2013 12:09:53 GMT -5
It is practical in a truck/trailer sense because there is a driver assigned to one trailer and can troubleshoot and do minor service to the cover, and can advise techs of problems. But a 100+ unit train of rough service freight cars would make them a nightmare to service. Carman inspect these cars (quickly) visually daily (only the running gear) but would only service other parts upon failure. Ore dust wreaks havoc on sliding guide tracks and crank mechs.
Anything you can do to remove the 'human' from the ore operation will aid in serviceability. That sucks, but its true. In this high-wage economy, bean counters do minute calculations to reduce manpower, spending millions on automation to remove a disgruntled/inattentive employee from damaging equipment or stopping the flow of goods.
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sgoti
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Post by sgoti on Feb 13, 2013 12:30:59 GMT -5
The September 1993 issue of Diesel Era had an article on a "flip-top" hopper coal train. Purpose was to prevent loosing small coal particles due to strong Wyoming winds.
IIRC, the covers were fiberglass, and hinged along one side of the coal gon (a standard Thrall design). There was a mechanism to unlatch and open the covers at the beginning of the loading process, and another to close and seal the covers as the cars left the loadout. Another set of similar mechanisms were at the power plant to open the covers for rotary dumping.
The fact that this was done on one trainset only, removed after a short test period, and never repeated (that I know of) probably says something about the feasibility/success of the testing.
How did the SP prevent loss from their open-top concentrate cars? Or were these used only for short distances?
Glenn
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dtinut
Chairman
Modeling the DT&I of the 60's & 70's
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Post by dtinut on Feb 13, 2013 12:32:35 GMT -5
Hmm, so the Athearn GT is your car of choice, and it needs a cover. These cars are rotary dumped? I'd think, about 2 piece cover with hinges at each side so it opens like a cupboard/except one cover overlaps the other by a small amount - say 6 inches.
With the right design, the covers could be pretty simple, and the ninges can be built robustly to withstand service. I would employ a mechanical tool to open the covers for loading at the mine, and reclosing before leaving the mine area. There are lots of ways this could be done, including using a robot like an automated assembly line uses.
The robot could be mounted overhead in a steel pole barn with open ends allowing the train to move through it. Robots can be programmed with vision to follow a moving object. have the train pull through the barn at a set speed. Robots vision system sees the car, senses speed, and moves to close the doors. With 2 robots, this could be accomplished quite quickly, one handling each door on each side of the car.
When rotary dumped, the doors would automatically open, just would need to add some method to get the to reclose as the car rotated back to normal position.
With this setup, the mechanical bits are not really part of each car (except the hinges). Robots can be had on the used market pretty economically.
Anyways - my $.02
Brian
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Post by lyled1117 on Feb 13, 2013 12:34:33 GMT -5
Brian, I don't know the copper mining industry to know if this would be practical, but if you're needing covered cars how about something like the CSX rotary covered hoppers used in phosphate handling. The lids are hinged on one of the long sides and open in the rotary dumper, kind of like a lid on a trash can. These cars also appear to have the gates in place for gravity unloading as well. Images from rr-fallenflags.org: Lyle
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2013 12:55:57 GMT -5
Keep it coming. a plan is forming. Here is the actual mining company that the Copper State Railway will be serving. I put a link to the project page. resolutioncopper.com/the-project/In real life, this company owns the old Magma Arizona Railroad. In my scenario, the CSR owns it. I am probably going to stick with the Athearn rotary dump car unless a new type of hopper comes out before I start buying the cars. I have an 8' long sheet of plywood at home I think i will make into a table and start building the mine loadout for a diorama that can be added into a layout when I gt my own place.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2013 13:42:46 GMT -5
After reading over the ideas you all are giving me, I have come up with this. Feedback welcome, criticism welcome.
Keep with the Athearn car. I like the idea of heavy overlapping doors. Brian, Your idea for robots is good. I can see a very simple robotic arm with a strong electronic on/off magnet to grab the doors, open them as it moves along a track with the car. The doors open to a slight outward angle so they stay open. A pole barn type setup would work just fine here. So we have heavy doors. Lets say 1" plate steel. One door overlaps the other when closed. The car has a rib welded down the center for the doors to close on so they have a center support. A rubber block is located for the first closing door to close against. I am thinking of pneumatic shocks on the doors to keep them from slamming shut and bend up the doors. After the loadout the cars go through a decreasing wedge that forces the doors to close enough so the weight of the doors push upon the pneumatic shock and close slowly. Not both doors at the same time, but one and then the other.
The loadout would be split into two troughs that empty on either side of the center rib so material does not get packed ontop of the rib when the doors close.
I think this is the easiest and simplest form. You only need an inspector to make sure the operation runs smooth and the doors are opening and closing properly. Hinges can be very simple alternating hinge on door/hinge on car with a large 1" diameter pin.
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Post by iomalley on Feb 13, 2013 14:12:53 GMT -5
1" plate steel? yikes! Remember, low tare weights save fuel!! Figures Bri (dtinut) would try to sell the CSR some robots....
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2013 14:20:59 GMT -5
Ok then how about fiberglass doors. But need something to keep them closed
I could go the route of a slurry concentrate. Use tank cars.
I am thinking the best way is tight bottom hoppers with round hatch tops like a cement hopper. Copper concentrate is like sand. I think I will hold out in hopes someone comes out with a modern taconite car. I can put a hopper roof on it and I am set. Tight bottom enclosed car.
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Post by MitchGDRMCo on Feb 13, 2013 19:23:43 GMT -5
Just thought I'd post this again to show what they do in the real world. Pacific National here in Queensland uses these for magnetite concentrate and those lids on the hoppers are made of fiberglass. The trains travel ~900km per trip and they don't lose the lids....PN also uses lids on gondolas for the transport of zinc concentrate iirc in NSW, they havent lost those lids either. Just to me using robots and doors and whatever else crazy ideas that have been posted here doesnt sem realistic to me, the cheap, reliable and easy way to do it is with the lids shown. They arent hinged as hinges need maintenance and lubrication, they have simple clamps and are removed and put on with an overhead gantry crane. As the loadout and in this case port facilities for this service are dedicated to it the chance of losing lids is near on impossible. My suggestion for modelling the lids is to use a tube about as wide as the hoppers, cut to length and cut in half so you have half pipe sections, cover the ends and voila.
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Post by stevef45 on Feb 14, 2013 16:19:06 GMT -5
Brian, so when you get to the Kennecott units, you will actually be building the high cabs? If so, can't wait to see that build video on youtube.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2013 8:33:35 GMT -5
Yes, I will be building them as high cabs. Before I get to those though, I will finish my 6 axle units first. I hope to have at least 6 of them done by the end of this year and the rest next year so I can start the mining power.
So far I have been able to stay focused on accomplishing my goals. After I finish teh SD40T-2, then the videos will be cut back to just individual stnad alone features. I'll be able to move much faster on building my fleet.
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Post by stevef45 on Feb 16, 2013 11:15:29 GMT -5
I really can't wait to see the build of the high cab's. I've been following your video's on youtube since the first one and there are ones that are very helpfull to me. I have the motivation to finish my SD60's but no parts
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Post by upguy1981 on Feb 16, 2013 11:56:39 GMT -5
No don't say it's so don't stop the videos after this build I find your videos very helpful
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