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Post by dcs077 on Dec 21, 2009 5:19:29 GMT -5
i am about to embark on a painting excersise over my holidays. i will be painting a gp 38 and p2k gp30 in chessie colours. does anyone have ideas on the best way to mask for the colour separation. which to do first.etc. also is it correct for the yellow to extemd 5'6 up from the walkway and the vermillion stripe to be 12" high? is the walkways on the gp30 painted yellow or blue. in some photos i think it is yellow but tthe units are too grubby to tell. does the 38 have blue or yellow walkways? i know it is alot of questions but i want these models to be correct. any help would be great
Dan
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Post by rdg5310 on Dec 21, 2009 8:03:40 GMT -5
I painted a good amount of Chessie over the years. I always started with the yellow, tape over the yellow that only needs protecting and paint the verm, tape that off the same way and paint the blue. Burnish your tape edges down in the door separations and corners, this helps stop the bleed through. Use a metal ruler to trim your edges of the tape to give you crisp lines. All walkways are blue. I always just followed the photo's for the dividing lines. No matter how many times I would paint these, I would spend allot of time researching the engines I was painting. Sometimes I'd come across a variation in paint and that's what I would paint. You can never over research a project. Go to this website it should help. www.trainweb.org/chessiephotos/ |
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Post by dcs077 on Dec 23, 2009 0:32:57 GMT -5
thanks for the info it will help alot.
Dan
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Post by dcs077 on Dec 23, 2009 22:30:00 GMT -5
are the tops of the step treads blue with the orange on the front edge or is the tread completely orange
Dan
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Post by chessie8553 on Dec 26, 2009 15:56:50 GMT -5
are the tops of the step treads blue with the orange on the front edge or is the tread completely orange Dan The step edges are orange/vermillion. The tops are actually yellow. BTW, what colors are you using? |
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Post by dcs077 on Dec 28, 2009 1:30:02 GMT -5
i used floquil armour yellow as it gives kind of a faded effect floquil dark blue and the vermillion is a custom mix predominantly cn orange with yellow mixed to lighten .looks good enough for my eyes.
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Post by chessie8553 on Dec 28, 2009 20:39:21 GMT -5
I use Floquil paints as well, only I use Reefer Yellow, Reefer Orange (sometimes I'll add some red), and either Dark Blue or Santa Fe Blue. Perhaps adding a few drops of red to the yellow will bring it closer to the actual prototype color, but it looks good enough without it.
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Post by dcs077 on Dec 29, 2009 3:37:57 GMT -5
thats why i use the armour yellow. i wasnt sure how it would turn out the first time but was very happy with the results as it looks spot on for a sun faded unit.
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CIOR
Chairman
Posts: 2,046
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Post by CIOR on Dec 29, 2009 11:18:17 GMT -5
I agree with RDG5310, use photos. One thing I learned is that the separation of colors could happen at various places on the same model of engine in the same shop.
Look at the photos to see if you want the exact paint scheme.
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Post by chessie8553 on Dec 29, 2009 14:03:06 GMT -5
I agree....pictures are a must. And don't forget that units will have the Chess-C positoned differently on the nose depending on where they were painted.
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Post by redp on Dec 29, 2009 14:40:11 GMT -5
I agree with RDG5310, use photos. One thing I learned is that the separation of colors could happen at various places on the same model of engine in the same shop. Look at the photos to see if you want the exact paint scheme. Ditto! I also try to look for photos taken about the same year I model as well. There are things like painting practices and standards that some times change year to rear. There is also the issue of fading paint. one thing I think is interesting at least for my PC (given that they were only in existance for 8 year). Is that when researching a certain road number we can actually see how the unit can change year by year. P |
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Post by dcs077 on Dec 29, 2009 20:54:51 GMT -5
i have noted the changes in units when viewing pics for various picture archives. also it is quite interesting to see how the weathering changes on the same unit in different pics. one of the units i am painting GP30 #3025 is a c an o unit and one of the only one i have seen with foot boards on the pilots. www.trainweb.org/chessiephotos/photos/GP30M/3025cs-c&o.jpgwas it just the c and o gp30s that had the horns on both sides of the cab? does any one have any pics of a close shot of the cab side for the decal placement on the cab and sills. the numbers and the c and o is easy but there is some small text near the numbers and some signs on the sills. i would like my model to be accurate i also believe that this unit was rebuilt into a gp30m. from some of the info i have found, these rebuilds had the prime mover replaced with the 645. was this 645 the turbo variant?? i have a spare tsunami tsu1000 645 turbo decoder that i was thinking of fitting if these units were indeed repowered with the 645 turbo. I just want this unit to be accurate. any info would be great. Dan Dan |
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Post by chessie8553 on Dec 30, 2009 8:16:06 GMT -5
i have noted the changes in units when viewing pics for various picture archives. also it is quite interesting to see how the weathering changes on the same unit in different pics. one of the units i am painting GP30 #3025 is a c an o unit and one of the only one i have seen with foot boards on the pilots. www.trainweb.org/chessiephotos/photos/GP30M/3025cs-c&o.jpgwas it just the c and o gp30s that had the horns on both sides of the cab? does any one have any pics of a close shot of the cab side for the decal placement on the cab and sills. the numbers and the c and o is easy but there is some small text near the numbers and some signs on the sills. i would like my model to be accurate i also believe that this unit was rebuilt into a gp30m. from some of the info i have found, these rebuilds had the prime mover replaced with the 645. was this 645 the turbo variant?? i have a spare tsunami tsu1000 645 turbo decoder that i was thinking of fitting if these units were indeed repowered with the 645 turbo. I just want this unit to be accurate. any info would be great. Dan Dan Footboards were banned in the U.S. since the early 70's. As far as the horns go, the C&O ordered a fairly uniqe horn arrangement on their GP30's with a three chime horn on one side and two on the other. The GP30M's had their engines de-rated from 2250 to 2000 hp. (the GP30/30M's were turbo-charged units) They also had their electrical systems upgraged. Externally, there were no different than a regualr GP30. Also, one of the B&O GP30m's (as well as at least one SD20-2 rebuild) was newly painted solid blue with yellow Chessie style numbers and "B&O" on the long hood. This was one of perhaps four Chessie 'stealth' units. One C&O unit (an NW2) received similar treatment. This was to save on painting costs. The small text that you ar referring to I beleive is the shop logo from where the unit was rebuilt or repainted. The work was done at either Huntington, WV (HLS) or Cumberland, MD. In addition to the shop logo, the placement of the Chess-C on the nose was also an indicator. I don't recall which one was which, but the Chess-C could be located with the top of the logo touching the bottom of the orange stripe, overlapping the oragne stripe, or not touching the stripe at all. I think (but not 100% sure) that the nose logo on factory painted units did not touch the stripe at all. On the other hand, the B30-7's all came form GE with smaller logos on the nose to fit under the unused headlight housing, but if a unit was re-painted by the railroad, it used the larger Chess-C that was applied to EMD's. |
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Post by dcs077 on Dec 30, 2009 9:00:47 GMT -5
i did read somewhere that the b and o units were derated but the c and o units were upgraded with the 645 so there is conflicting information. if it was true that the c and o units were indeed upgraded the question is still the same were they upgraded with the 645 turbo. i know they originally had the 567d turbo.
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Post by minicooper on Dec 30, 2009 13:28:49 GMT -5
According to the Chessie System Diesel Locomotives book that I have, on page 5 it shows three Chessie units, each one with the Chess-C logo in a different location on the short hood. It states in the description box that if the Chess-C logo is below the orange stripe, it was painted at Huntington, if it touches the bottom of the stripe, it was painted at EMD, and if it overlaps the stripe, it was painted at Cumberland.
It sounds like dcs077 could use the book that I have. It has a whole section dedicated to GP30M rebuilds, Chessie style of course!
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Post by chessie8553 on Dec 30, 2009 13:45:17 GMT -5
i did read somewhere that the b and o units were derated but the c and o units were upgraded with the 645 so there is conflicting information. if it was true that the c and o units were indeed upgraded the question is still the same were they upgraded with the 645 turbo. i know they originally had the 567d turbo. I'll have to check my resources, but I am not imediately aware of any of these units having had their prime movers replaced. From what I understand, the engines were fitted with superchargers rather than turbos which resulted in the 2000 hp rating. |
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Post by minicooper on Dec 30, 2009 15:58:58 GMT -5
chessie8553, according to my book, the GP30 rebuilds retained their turbocharging but were downrated to 2,000 horsepower. Also, you are correct in stating that none of the GP30 rebuilds had their prime movers replaced.
dcs077, are you talking about the 1 inch lettering that is located between C&O and the road number? If so, according to the styling plans that is in my book for the GP40-2, the left side would be "radio" and the right side would be GP40-2. It should be the same for the GP30M.
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Post by dcs077 on Dec 30, 2009 18:52:15 GMT -5
sounds like i do need that book lol. thanks for clearing it up.all the info is great thanks for the help
Dan
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Post by minicooper on Dec 30, 2009 19:13:00 GMT -5
Glad to be of help. I would feel better if chessie8553 could back me up concerning the prime mover issue.
The book is called Chessie System Diesel Locomotives by Jerry Doyle, published in 1999 by TLC Publishing, Inc. It contains valuable info for detailing Chessie engines. I find myself using it quite often. Of course, researching, via the web, is another great source also. What I really like though is the style plans for the GP40-2 at the front of the book, and the style plans for the B30-7 at the back of the book. These are the only style plans I have for the Chessie System. I have yet to find them on the web and I doubt I ever will.
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Post by dcs077 on Dec 31, 2009 3:03:37 GMT -5
speaking of gp 40-2s does anyone know the fullsize distance between the frame rails? i want to mill the frame for my next project and would like this dimension.
Dan
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