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Post by dcs077 on Dec 31, 2009 3:10:37 GMT -5
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Post by minicooper on Dec 31, 2009 8:16:05 GMT -5
According to Mr. Doyle, the author, both the B&O's and C&O's GP30's retained the 567D3 prime movers. He does not mention anything concerning the 645 prime mover being put into the C&O's GP30's. There were 34 C&O units and 33 B&O units that were rebuilt during the approximately 2 yrs that this program was active. It could be something that he overlooked, but I highly doubt it. Like chessie8553, I to will do some research on this.
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Post by dcs077 on Dec 31, 2009 10:04:29 GMT -5
would be good to find out for sure what actually was done. please let me know your findings.
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Post by minicooper on Dec 31, 2009 13:23:01 GMT -5
I am sorry to say that I am unable to find anything that backs up what was posted on that site. This guy may be "blowing smoke" so to say. Here is what I have concerning what was done to the B&O and C&O GP30's during that short lived program: 1) Downrated from 2,250 hp to 2,000 (to much power for such a small frame?), 2) Completely rewired with some modular components similar to Dash Two units, 3) Received a new IDAC wheel slip control system, 4) D77 traction motors, and 5) Electric cab heaters. It should be noted too, that most units had the old battery box doors replaced with the newer slotted door. If anyone else can provide any additional info, please do so.
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Post by rdg5310 on Dec 31, 2009 22:09:24 GMT -5
If I'm not mistaken, the reason for the deration from 2250 to 2000 hp was help reduce turbocharger failure. GP30's were very susceptible to failure. That particular prime mover was pushed to the limits at that time to be competitive with GE. CSX was able to prolong the life of these units by doing the dash 2 upgrades and the derated prime mover. I don't remember were that info came from, but I do know the GP30m's had reduced turbo failure after the rebuild. The dash 2 upgrades would not reduce failure alone. Maybe someone else can add to this or debunk this. But, what ever the reason for the derating, it helped keep those GP30's active for several more years.
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Post by minicooper on Jan 1, 2010 9:27:01 GMT -5
Ron, I can back you up by quoting Mr. Doyle from my book, he states: "The 567D3 prime mover retained turbocharging but was downrated to 2000 HP. The result was a prime mover that was not highly stressed, even when running at full throttle for extended periods." Later he says: "In service, the GP30M's were some of the most reliable units on the roster..." From Chessie System Diesel Locomotives, Jerry Doyle, pg75.
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CIOR
Chairman
Posts: 2,046
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Post by CIOR on Jan 1, 2010 13:43:02 GMT -5
It was another reason the Chessie fell hard over the GP40-2's. The ability to run 3-4 unit consist and add in a SD35/40 series engine to get em over the mountains, but on the plains of Indiana/Ohio they could average a greater speed with less issue. The GP30's had major issues and in almost every picture in Indiana/Ohio you see on a TOFC train you see them intermixed. This wasn't the case later on.
I dunno if they ever upgraded the motors on the GP30's. Seems a bit much on that end, unless they did it to engines that had major issues. Besides, why only do some if not the entire fleet!
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Post by dcs077 on Jan 1, 2010 21:05:10 GMT -5
its very interesting to find out about the history of these locos as they had a relatively long lifespan. i agree that why would they do it to some.... but then again the b and o and c and o units both recieved different modifications when they underwent rebuilding... who know as so many things vary on so many units. i am sorry to say my knowledge on the units is severly lacking to make assumptions. As i am not strictly a prototype modeler i fudge the truth a bit about things. on my layout chessie never merged into csx....it still lives strong in the early 90's so to me it is not a stretch to believe that at least one of the 30's was remotored. i know it may offend some chessie purists out there but being in my part of the world i have limited resources on reference material. as the allure of chessie is so strong for me i felt i could proto freelance enough to enjoy chessie into modern railroading times.(well not too modern). and still keep the prototype nuances that makes the chessie passion strong.
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Post by dcs077 on Jan 2, 2010 4:54:13 GMT -5
well its finally finished. you can find it in the appropriate emd section.
Dan
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Post by minicooper on Jan 2, 2010 7:30:30 GMT -5
dcs077, I think you will find that most of us who model the Chessie System have the same passions as you do. It was a sad day when I witnessed the work train here in Muncie, IN pulling up the rails of the C&O. It was the end of an area, for those same rails ran past my grandparents old farm up in northern Indiana. No longer would I be able to watch the Chessie trains go by during my summer breaks while on the farm. As with you, the Chessie System lives on on my layout, and like you, I do not model any particular era at this time. CSX will never run on my rails, nor will you ever see consists mixed with Seaboard and Chessie engines.
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CIOR
Chairman
Posts: 2,046
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Post by CIOR on Jan 2, 2010 11:07:14 GMT -5
dcs077, I think you will find that most of us who model the Chessie System have the same passions as you do. It was a sad day when I witnessed the work train here in Muncie, IN pulling up the rails of the C&O. It was the end of an area, for those same rails ran past my grandparents old farm up in northern Indiana. No longer would I be able to watch the Chessie trains go by during my summer breaks while on the farm. As with you, the Chessie System lives on on my layout, and like you, I do not model any particular era at this time. CSX will never run on my rails, nor will you ever see consists mixed with Seaboard and Chessie engines. Thats why you come to my place to see it reborn! Someplace I've got the video of the rail train removing the track at Broadway/Hackley across the river, and then I got it at Mt.Pleasant.
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Post by chessie8553 on Jan 2, 2010 15:47:52 GMT -5
I am sorry to say that I am unable to find anything that backs up what was posted on that site. This guy may be "blowing smoke" so to say. Here is what I have concerning what was done to the B&O and C&O GP30's during that short lived program: 1) Downrated from 2,250 hp to 2,000 (to much power for such a small frame?), 2) Completely rewired with some modular components similar to Dash Two units, 3) Received a new IDAC wheel slip control system, 4) D77 traction motors, and 5) Electric cab heaters. It should be noted too, that most units had the old battery box doors replaced with the newer slotted door. If anyone else can provide any additional info, please do so. Happy New Year everyone. I'll add this bit of information: According the book, Chesapeake & Ohio Diesel Locomotives (Carl W. Shaver and David L. Gilliland), the units received a class 1 overhaul which included having the prime mover replaced and that the new engines were essentially the same as the old ones but governed down to 2,000 h/p. I am assuming that this applies to both C&O and B&O units as the authors did not point out any differences between the two roads' units. I dunno if they ever upgraded the motors on the GP30's. Seems a bit much on that end, unless they did it to engines that had major issues. Besides, why only do some if not the entire fleet! Or why not maybe trade in the GP30's/35's on more GP40-2's? This must have been the more economically feasable option at the time I guess.
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Post by chessie8553 on Jan 2, 2010 15:58:46 GMT -5
its very interesting to find out about the history of these locos as they had a relatively long lifespan. i agree that why would they do it to some.... but then again the b and o and c and o units both recieved different modifications when they underwent rebuilding... who know as so many things vary on so many units. i am sorry to say my knowledge on the units is severly lacking to make assumptions. As i am not strictly a prototype modeler i fudge the truth a bit about things. on my layout chessie never merged into csx....it still lives strong in the early 90's so to me it is not a stretch to believe that at least one of the 30's was remotored. i know it may offend some chessie purists out there but being in my part of the world i have limited resources on reference material. as the allure of chessie is so strong for me i felt i could proto freelance enough to enjoy chessie into modern railroading times.(well not too modern). and still keep the prototype nuances that makes the chessie passion strong. Well, how about this: After the C&O completed its acquisition of the B&O, Chessie System Inc. remains a corporate entity and the Seaboard System Railroad is now under the Chessie umbrella. As a result, you now have Chessie units with 'SBD' sub-lettering. Probabay too much accounting involved to work in the real world, but from what I understand, the C&O Railway was the survivng corparte shell into which CSX Transportatoin (which was simply a re-naming of the SBD) was folded into and again renamed CSX.
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CIOR
Chairman
Posts: 2,046
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Post by CIOR on Jan 2, 2010 18:49:11 GMT -5
True....
Irony, there are WAY TOO MANY CHESSIE logos on this thread...LMAO
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Post by dcs077 on Jan 3, 2010 5:13:42 GMT -5
i agree with the suggestion .... if we forget the management and financial side of things....which is not relavant to us as all we see is the physical plant of the operation it is not such a stretch. who care what goes on behind the boardroom doors as long as the proud kitten earns for its shareholders... which we know she does. New locomotive purchases into the 90's is on the cards too. sbd sub lettering is coming and the major workshops are getting ready for the new rebuilding program that is about to commence.
Dan
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Post by chessie77 on Aug 14, 2012 21:29:59 GMT -5
:)Hi, I just found this thread and thought i'd add something about Chessie paint. If you look at the proto Chessie units such as th SW9/1200s and their GP9s and GP30s they have gray walkways. According to the C&O Diesel Review published by the C&O Historical Society in 1981, the Chessie paint scheme called for gray walkways and step treads. The paint digrams in the Chessie diesel book by Doyle are the factory specs. Units repainted into Chessie had the gray walkways. As the units weathered the blue underneath bled through. Also it seems some of the GP38s had yellow walkways when they were repainted according to some pictures. I hope this helps although I'm a little late for this thread.
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