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Post by Christian on Sept 25, 2016 16:45:24 GMT -5
Lol hey Christian, it's that "just want to know" that gets me starring at then studying EMD build and "phaseology" constantly. I swear I spend more time looking through diesel photos and motive power books than modeling. I had an old ex-girlfriend that would tease me and call it "train porn". "You lookin at your train porn again" she would say as I'm laying in bed beside her buried in my iPad. Haha! Gotta love it. Were all four of these diesels rebuilt by the same company? Hehe... I guess you can call that way! :-) I'm not sure who did the rebuild. I'll see if I can find info on that! :-)
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kcw
Road Foreman
Posts: 60
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Post by kcw on Sept 25, 2016 17:17:01 GMT -5
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Post by Christian on Sept 25, 2016 17:45:03 GMT -5
Yes, kcw, it does help solve the mystery! Thanks a bunch
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deez
Chairman
Midland Belt Railway
Posts: 949
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Post by deez on Sept 25, 2016 18:14:34 GMT -5
I just looked at a picture of B&O 3825 in Chessie colors with an angled paper air filter added. Circa 1986. Not exactly the EMD type but the skinnier homemade type typically added to those early C&O/B&O GP38 units. That still does not mean that they're not the same units. The 38's dynamics could have been inoperable at the time of the slug build and swapped out.
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sgoti
Chairman
Posts: 459
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Post by sgoti on Sept 25, 2016 19:18:28 GMT -5
I don't know where D&RGW #3057 came from... Howdy! I was the one who threw the D&RGW #3057 out there. I only mentioned it as another example of a pre dash-2 GP40 having late dash-2 corrugated radiator grills. My humble apologies for any confusion.
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sgoti
Chairman
Posts: 459
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Post by sgoti on Sept 25, 2016 19:21:49 GMT -5
EMD started sending -2's out with corrugated radiator grills in late '74. If there is a pic of 3057 with those updated grills taken before '74 I would be amazed. You sure about that? My sources say EMD went to the corrugated grills in '76, and pictures I have found of GP40-2 locos produced as late as November '74 still show the chicken wire style grills.
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Post by Christian on Sept 25, 2016 19:26:53 GMT -5
I don't know where D&RGW #3057 came from... Howdy! I was the one who threw the D&RGW #3057 out there. I only mentioned it as another example of a pre dash-2 GP40 having late dash-2 corrugated radiator grills. My humble apologies for any confusion. Oh! Ok... that explains it! Thanks for the info!
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sgoti
Chairman
Posts: 459
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Post by sgoti on Sept 25, 2016 19:50:59 GMT -5
Howdy! I was the one who threw the D&RGW #3057 out there. I only mentioned it as another example of a pre dash-2 GP40 having late dash-2 corrugated radiator grills. My humble apologies for any confusion. Oh! Ok... that explains it! Thanks for the info! Always glad to clear up confusion I've caused... Nice work on these, BTW! (I think I forgot to mention that earlier.)
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deez
Chairman
Midland Belt Railway
Posts: 949
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Post by deez on Sept 25, 2016 20:21:39 GMT -5
Check out Santa Fe's last order of SD45-2's from late '74. They have corragated radiator grills. Or Santa Fe's Phase Ib GP39-2's with early wide spaced radiator fans but corragated grills. These were all built before '76. I know Athearn makes the SD45-2's for Santa Fe with the corragated grills. Those suckers are hard to find also. Too bad they didn't get the steps right. Athearn told me they would do the phase Ib 39-2's which only Santa Fe had too.
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sgoti
Chairman
Posts: 459
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Post by sgoti on Sept 25, 2016 21:28:12 GMT -5
Check out Santa Fe's last order of SD45-2's from late '74. They have corragated radiator grills. Or Santa Fe's Phase Ib GP39-2's with early wide spaced radiator fans but corragated grills. These were all built before '76. I know Athearn makes the SD45-2's for Santa Fe with the corragated grills. Those suckers are hard to find also. Too bad they didn't get the steps right. Athearn told me they would do the phase Ib 39-2's which only Santa Fe had too. Ok, but not on the GP40-2. And certainly not across the board on the GP39-2. Perhaps an ATSF-only feature?
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deez
Chairman
Midland Belt Railway
Posts: 949
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Post by deez on Sept 25, 2016 21:47:53 GMT -5
Yeah I think 40-2's stayed with the early screens longer also. Maybe EMD had so many 40-2 orders that they only experimented with the corragated grills on some smaller orders till they could justify the update. Heck maybe it was an option for a year or so before it became standard. I like that D&RGW 3057 though. It's really interesting with the early paint and later -2 grills.
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Post by jmlaboda on Sept 26, 2016 14:17:23 GMT -5
I am sorry but that simply is not true. EMD didn't start using the corrugated grills until 1977 (the same year that the short hood was extended to 88" and the GP39-2s redesigned to a more compact equipment arrangement set further to the rear of the cab) but how 3057 received them is hard to say except possibly as a wreck rebuild by EMD because it is a GP40 not a Dash-2. A shot of the unit on George Elwood's Fallen Flags site shows the unit before the change... rr-fallenflags.org/drgw/drgw3057jpc.jpg
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sgoti
Chairman
Posts: 459
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Post by sgoti on Sept 26, 2016 21:06:18 GMT -5
I am sorry but that simply is not true. EMD didn't start using the corrugated grills until 1977 (the same year that the short hood was extended to 88" and the GP39-2s redesigned to a more compact equipment arrangement set further to the rear of the cab) but how 3057 received them is hard to say except possibly as a wreck rebuild by EMD because it is a GP40 not a Dash-2. A shot of the unit on George Elwood's Fallen Flags site shows the unit before the change... rr-fallenflags.org/drgw/drgw3057jpc.jpgActually Jerry, you're correct, but only because EMD started sending out locos with corrugated grills in 1972! These would have been on the SP/SSW SD45T-2s. True, not the same radiator grills as are on the QGRY unit, but they are in fact corrugated radiator intake grills... And, some of the 1974-built SD45-2s did in fact come from EMD with corrugated radiator grills. However, the corrugated grills were not STANDARD, across-the-board, on EVERY model built until 1977. I have serious doubts about DRGW 3057 receiving its corrugated grills due to wreck rebuild because: 1) There is absolutely no mention of this unit having been wrecked/rebuilt at all, anywhere. The only mention of a rebuild I can find for this unit was when it was rebuilt by OMNITrax before being shipped to Argentina. 2) ANY AND ALL wrecked locomotives that were rebuilt by EMD came back (re)painted in the larger billboard GRANDE paint scheme. As pictured, 3057 was simply wearing its as-delivered paint from 1966. It could be as simple as the railroad ordered replacement screens from EMD, and EMD was only supplying the corrugated style. There was another Grande unit (3114) that had corrugated on one side, and half-corrugated, half-chicken wire on the other: www.trainweb.org/tomfassett/pics/drgw/3114_DRGW_EMD_GP40-2.JPGwww.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=3433737(Funky SDP40F-style exhaust silencer is factory, also on 3113 and 3115.) Pure conjecture on my part, but perhaps EMD changed vendors for radiator grills? A change in vendors was the reason for the differences in the very first GP60 locos built for ATSF/SP and all later units. Back to the original topic, I have tried to find any information about why the slugs had their DB sections swapped out. So far, no dice.
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dtinut
Chairman
Modeling the DT&I of the 60's & 70's
Posts: 661
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Post by dtinut on Sept 26, 2016 22:13:04 GMT -5
I am pretty sure the first 40-2's w/ corrugated grilles is ARR Which were delivered 4/76. www.trainweb.org/jaydeet/gp40-2.htmThe above source is reviewed/updated by many knowledgeable people, and I haven't found it to be inaccurate. Regards, Brian EMD started sending -2's out with corrugated radiator grills in late '74. If there is a pic of 3057 with those updated grills taken before '74 I would be amazed. You sure about that? My sources say EMD went to the corrugated grills in '76, and pictures I have found of GP40-2 locos produced as late as November '74 still show the chicken wire style grills.
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deez
Chairman
Midland Belt Railway
Posts: 949
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Post by deez on Sept 26, 2016 23:47:11 GMT -5
This is a direct quote from Louis A. Marre and Paul K. Withers and I'll believe these guys before anyone. "During production of a 35-unit SD40-2 order for Burlington Northern (6708-6742) in February and March of 1976, EMD redesigned the radiator grills to a corrugated mesh design". It's at least good for SD40-2 production. lol that pic link of 3057 that Jerry posted shows some very apparent leakage from the bottom of the radiator screens. Christian, I apologize for dragging us way off topic.
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Post by Christian on Sept 27, 2016 9:56:06 GMT -5
No worries about dragging the post off-topic, it's quite entertaining actually! :-)
From the look of it deez, the "slugs" never got the paper filter in the first place, at least, for unit 800 as per kcw post further up.
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sgoti
Chairman
Posts: 459
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Post by sgoti on Sept 27, 2016 11:06:31 GMT -5
lol that pic link of 3057 that Jerry posted shows some very apparent leakage from the bottom of the radiator screens. The Grande had a water spray system in their diesels (beginning with the FT) to help the radiators keep things cool. You might be seeing the after effects of that, rather than leaking radiators.
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Post by ironstef70 on Dec 4, 2016 8:16:55 GMT -5
Christian, it's cool that you do this project: these locos are likely close to my home every once in a while, in the Western part of Quebec City where they operate: the Hamel-Duplessis Yard which is about a 5 minutes drive for me. I was in Montreal (Van Horne Hobbies) just last week and was looking at this Atlas unit and wondered about it's accuracy. Looks like it was not prototype. Anyways, using an Atlas shell as a starting point must be a good idea. Atlas QGRY 3801Stephane
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