Proto-freelance conceptual questions

[bowline]

Hi, everyone.  I am just throwing out my proto-freelance concept to see what everyone thinks of it.  I have much more time to plan than to build so I want to put a lot of thought into all aspects of my planning. I am trying to make this scenario as real as I can make it and you guys have done a fantastic job with your concepts and lines you model. Therefore, any input would be great!

My original concept for my proto-freelance line was the Gulf Coast Line (GCL). The GCL is a collection of abandoned CofG (Sou) lines in SE Alabama. The original line is the abandoned portion of the CofG Ozark District from Ozark, AL to Clayton, AL with lines from Eufaula, AL to Montgomery and Union Springs, AL to Troy, AL. Trackage rights from Clayton to Eufaula over the Southern (later NS) allow connection of the lines. The line represents operations in the late 1970's through mid-1980's and operates about 120 miles of ancient, light rail with plenty of speed and weight restrictions. Shipments include various forest products (wood chips, lumber, pulpwood, logs), aggregates, peanuts, bauxite, fertilizer, lime, and agricultural equipment. Most freight is for online customers with little through freight.

The line is not able to spend much on motive power or line maintenance upgrades, to say the least. My roster includes all EMD 567-engined motive power to save on parts cost, inventory and technician training. This could change as the era progresses and 567s become obsolete but for now that is what they have. Everything is well used with the exception of a leased unit every once in a while. Current roster includes SW7s, GP7s, SD7s, GP30s and a single SD35. Eventual plans call for some Paducah rebuilds, Uceta rebuilds or used GP15s to replace some of the original power. The resources aren't available for those at current. This is where the roster stands in the mid-80s.

The paint scheme is basic black with yellow lettering much in the vain as other cash-strapped operations (Alabama RR, Alabama and Florida RR, Gulf and Ohio, Penn Central, etc.). However, much of the recently acquired power operates in patch paint schemes as full paint jobs don’t always fit into the budget.

I still like much of my original concept but now am considering a roster of mostly 6-axle EMD and maybe a name change to East Alabama & Gulf, South Alabama & Gulf or ?

What do y’all think of this concept?   

[bowline]

Thanks for the input!

Here is my reasoning/answers to your questions:

Q1:
cash strapped roads wouldn't have the unds for gp15's for the most part

A: You are correct. The 15's are something that I was toying with for future if I decided on advancing the era a bit. Was thinking some would be available on the secondhand market by the mid 90s but you bring up a good point in Q2. Will probably ditch the idea of 15's.

Q2:rebuilding your gp7's & sd7's would be more inline with a budget as you already own the power

A: Probably will happen if I advance the era. Right now the 7's are operating on their last legs.

Q3:
how much freight is shipped rom each customer if it's a lot the original road would be hard pressed to sell the line

A: My concept is based on actual lines that were abandoned by Sou/NS in the late 70s to early 80s, so the lines would be available. However, there were a few customers still along the routes.

Q4:
Gulf Coast Lines sounds okay to me as you could serve from Louisiana to florida along the gulf of mexico with smaller branches leaving the main to sere inland customers

A4: Locale is set for the route in SE Alabama and is based on actual lines. Gulf Coast is used as this area is considered the Gulf Coast region and much of my outbound traffic ends up in Port St. Joe, FL and Panama City, FL paper mills.


Q5:
gp30's really wouldn't be on the used market until around 1982 & later
these are just a few thoughts enjoy

A: My line started operations in 1977 and is currently set somewhere around 1987. So, this is precisely the era I plan to model and was thinking GP30's with patch paint just purchased secondhand.

Thanks again for the input.

[c415rock]

Hi Bowline,

Your wanting GP30 in patch paint is very plausible. The P&L was started in 1986 and had several patched ex ICG & GM&O GP30 at start up. In 1982 UP started to retire GP30's and sat in dead lines for years before being sold, some have even ended up as genset doners. I have a CNW roster showing 1986 retirement dates for GP30's. I know for sure first hand that some Conrail GP30's were retired and sold in the early 1980's. I chased the West Shore GP30 and SW1 on my Schwinn bicycle back in 1983/1984 who's tracks ran across the street from my house. I think I have even seen some retirement dates for BN units in the mid 80's, but I would think these might have been kept by BN for there rebuild program.

Hope this helps.
Erik

[bowline]

Thanks for help everyone. Vince, that would be great if I could find a few GP30s that were retired in the mid-80s that could potentially have been picked up by my road in that time frame. This kinda leads me to another question. After taking a look at some 1980s shortline rosters in depth, I notice that there was an abundance of Alcos still around. I always just assumed that operating Alcos would have been cost prohibative due to maintenance costs and parts/mechanic availability. The reason that I am using EMD 567s is that I assumed that these would be the easiest to obtain and maintain. However, would the lower purchase costs/higher maintenance costs of Alcos out-weigh the lower maintenance/ higher purchase price of EMDs?  I might do some more reconfiguring if this is so.

[Canadian Atlantic Railway]

You could go with pretty much any four axle ALCO for your 80's roster. I can't think of any six axle ALCO that survived the 80's in regular service other than the three former C636 demo's and a few ex UP C630's that ended up on the Cartier in Quebec.

[bowline]

Yeah, was definately thinking 4 axle with the ALCOs as I know that not many of the 6 axles survived. I really like the ALCOs and could transition into newer (as in, 1960s vintage) EMD 4 and 6 motors as I advance the era. Were used ALCOs significantly less expensive to aquire than EMD? Also, I have always heard of reliability issues with these versus the comparable EMD.

[Canadian Atlantic Railway]

For small roads who looked after their units they tended to be reliable. Look at the Arkansas and Missouri who rosters several C420's in 2013 although they did get three SD70ACe's last month and the former New Brunswick East Coast who had a large roster of RS18u's and four C424's. Before the sale to CN they had added -3 systems to several units to modernize them.

[emd16645]

Sept 24, 2013 18:03:34 GMT -5 @ir1799 said:

remember a lot of the alco parts can be found thru boats like tugs ect ect that are being retired scrapped due to age FM also did the same thing providing power for boats

The Alco 251 engine is still available, so parts would be still readily available. It is now produced by Fairbanks Morse.

Also, EMD has a large number of engines in the maritime fleet as well. A friend of mine worked on one of the ore ships on the Great Lakes which used several 20 cylinder 645s for its power plant.

[c415rock]

Hi Bowline,

 Alco's were the cheap locomotive at the time and there were tons of them to be had. That is why so many short lines and regionals ended up with them.

 Many of these roads hung on to there Alco's until the late 90's to the mid 2000's and some roads still are all Alco roads.

 The Detroit & Mackinaw / Lake States  was a all Alco road until the late 90's rostering C425's, C420, RS2's, RS3m's, HR412, M420's, S1
Many of these engines were painted when they worked for D&M, after the LS take over a lot of units roamed the road in patched paint.
Here is a link so you can see the different paint and patch schemes. LS is now a all EMD road of older / cheaper 2nd generation GP/SD units.
 
  www.railroadmichigan.com/lakestate.html

Current regionals runnning all Alco's are:

 Delaware Lackawanna
 NY&WP
 Arkansas & Missouri ( 3 New SD70ace's )

Here is a list of short lines & regionals that were Alco roads.

 Napierville Junction
Greenwich & Johnsonville
Cooperstown & Charlotte Valley
Winchester Western
Erie Western
Indiana Hi-Rail
TP&W
D&H
Apache
Utah
NYSW
Belt Railway
Kyle

I am sure there are many more, this is what comes to the top of my mind.

Erik

 

[bowline]

Hi All. I am revisiting this topic as I am finally gonna work on my concept and build a small layout for my young son and me to enjoy. I am very much locked in on the protolance regional concept of an assemblage of old Southern (CofG) lines in southeast Alabama. The line does some pulpwood/woodchip run through trains with the Bay Line over SCL to Dothan, AL for the paper mill in Panama City, FL.   I plan to model the south end of the line in my hometown of Ozark, AL. Ozark was the southern terminus of an old CofG branch (Eufaula, AL on the GA state line to Ozark) that was abandoned in 1977.  Still plan on using simple black paint schemes and patch paint equipment.  I was going with the Gulf Coast Line name but am reconsidering this as I think it sounds too generic and maybe not realistic enough.  I already have some equipment lettered for GCL so I may keep the name as nickname for the system.  I was throwing around the names East Alabama and Gulf but I am now leaning toward Alabama, Georgia & Gulf. This is because the lines are in AL, running on old CofG lines to the GA line and operating in the Gulf coast region. Does this sound plausible?

I am trying to develop a semi-realistic diesel roster (got a GP-9, patched GP-38 and SD-35 right now) but that discussion can wait. I just would like some input as to whether this idea sounds reasonable and realistic enough to pursue. Thanks in advance!

[jmlaboda]

For the most part is "realistic enough to pursue" consider that you are basing it, in part, on a former route that could have managed to survive. Doing something similar myself and look forward to seeing what you do with it...

Gotta ask... is the SD35 hi-hooded?  The reason I ask is because four of the Central of Georgia SD35s (CG 215, 218, 219 and 224) were lightweights (weighing 10,000 lbs. less than other SDs) for use on the Savannah line where heavier units couldn't be used.  A bridge over the Savannah River was the limiting factor so these units were used to haul coal to a power plant on the line (likely supplanted by the GP50s that Southern got).  Would be good units to look into for your lightweight lines.

All four were renumbered to avoid conflict with N&W EMD GP35s of the same number series after the merger had been approved, becoming SOU 2990, 2993, 2994 and 2999, they would be in essence just like other units detail wise unlike some other lightweight units that have smaller fuel tanks to help meet a lighter weight.  To limit the weight even more... maybe a deal with NS could have netted some of the smaller fuel tanks used on GP38s that would limit its weight even more (most SD35 tanks were reequipped on the GP38 tanks to increase their fuel capacity so would not be such a stretch to do... the tank could be in new paint while the rest of the unit, save for the new number, could be in weathered paint).  Not sure just how hard changing the tank would be but its something else to consider.

[bowline]

Thanks for the input. The SD35 isn't a high hood but I would love to add some lightweight SDs to the stable. It just happened to be an old spare Atlas that I had when I first started toying with the idea for this line. Eventually, I want to get our rolling stock up to snuff and detailed. For now I am working thought the concept and track plan so that we can get trains rolling. My son is 5 and I would like to get things moving while we do some upgrades and improvements.