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Post by andersonwill on Feb 27, 2012 13:31:41 GMT -5
I'm in the midst of upgrading my FM C-Liner drawings (http://www.trainweb.org/willstrainart/FM_line.htm) and have hit a snag, of sorts. The CLC units (CN & CP), both freight and passenger variants, show three roof fans, two on the fireman's side, one on the engineer's. They also show a blanked radiator area beneath the missing fan (at least in most of the earlier photos). Do the 1600hp units out of Beloit follow the same pattern on the roof? From what photos I find on line. the NYC, MILW and PRR locos show grills beneath where the fan might be missing, but I can find no clear photos of the roof of these units to show if there are three or four fans. It is clear that the 2000 hp and 2400 hp C-Liners have all four. Then with the MILW photos, it seems that there are three fans at center-line of the back, rather than the side-by-side configuration. I've read no indication of any repowering by MILW or EMD to rearrange this. This may seem anal retentive, but there are enough people that will critique my drawings that I want to get it right, but I can't seem find the photographic proof. Photos or links to photos would be a great help. Thanks.
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Post by poweredby251 on Feb 28, 2012 15:59:15 GMT -5
As for the Milwaukee C-liners, the fan locations were altered to the three in a row, but no repowering was done. The Milwaukee liked their FM's enough to keep the switchers running well after all other minority makes were retired. The remaining Alco's and Baldwin's were finished off by the last order of MP-15AC's, but quite a few H-10-44 and H-12-44's lasted through 1980 or so. Sadly the H-16-44's and H-16-66's also were replaced by the MP-15AC's as well, and the C-liners were retired by 1969. John I'm in the midst of upgrading my FM C-Liner drawings (http://www.trainweb.org/willstrainart/FM_line.htm) and have hit a snag, of sorts. The CLC units (CN & CP), both freight and passenger variants, show three roof fans, two on the fireman's side, one on the engineer's. They also show a blanked radiator area beneath the missing fan (at least in most of the earlier photos). Do the 1600hp units out of Beloit follow the same pattern on the roof? From what photos I find on line. the NYC, MILW and PRR locos show grills beneath where the fan might be missing, but I can find no clear photos of the roof of these units to show if there are three or four fans. It is clear that the 2000 hp and 2400 hp C-Liners have all four. Then with the MILW photos, it seems that there are three fans at center-line of the back, rather than the side-by-side configuration. I've read no indication of any repowering by MILW or EMD to rearrange this. This may seem anal retentive, but there are enough people that will critique my drawings that I want to get it right, but I can't seem find the photographic proof. Photos or links to photos would be a great help. Thanks.
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Post by andersonwill on Feb 28, 2012 16:23:03 GMT -5
Thank you for your response and the information. Was this alteration a custom MILW treatment from the factory to begin with, or did the MILW units start with the side-by-side configuration and were they later modified by the railroad? I'm leaning toward whatever the"as Delivered" configuration might be for my finished drawing, though if it was actually modified early enough, and since it seems to be unique to MILW, I may go with the three-in-a-row regardless.
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Post by poweredby251 on Feb 28, 2012 16:58:26 GMT -5
It was done by the Milwaukee but not sure of the timeframe. I believe it was mid to late 60's but not sure. And I am pretty sure it was a Milwaukee only modification. Thank you for your response and the information. Was this alteration a custom MILW treatment from the factory to begin with, or did the MILW units start with the side-by-side configuration and were they later modified by the railroad? I'm leaning toward whatever the"as Delivered" configuration might be for my finished drawing, though if it was actually modified early enough, and since it seems to be unique to MILW, I may go with the three-in-a-row regardless.
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c415rock
Moderator
"Linking the East with the West"
Posts: 1,044
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Post by c415rock on Feb 29, 2012 13:33:02 GMT -5
The Milwaukee's C Liners were delivered with two fan on the engineer's side of the roof and one on the fireman's side.
In 1959 they replaced the engine and engine blowers. it was at this time the three cooling fans were revised to a three fan in line arrangement.
NYC units
Model CFA & CFB-20-4 were re-engined between 1955-1957 with EMD567A and 567C with no fan change & received EMD exhaust stacks.
Model CFA & CFB-16-4 were no changes to this class
Model CPA-24-4 Were re-engined with EMD567C 1750HP between 1955 & 1956, no visible changes to exterior.
Hope this helps Erik
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Post by andersonwill on Feb 29, 2012 13:52:10 GMT -5
Thanks to all for your insights. Were the PRR and NYC 1600hp engines also delivered with the same configuration as the original MILW (which would appear to be opposite of the CLC units), or were 4 fans the original order? I've since seen photos of brass NYC CFA-16-4 engines with all four fans, but then the AHM model had all four, too, so I'm not sure of the accuracy thereof.
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Post by CP_8530 on Feb 29, 2012 17:09:02 GMT -5
A minor variation: the 2 CLC "City of Kingston" CPA16-4 demos (7005 and 7006, later CP 4064 and 4065) had 4 rear fans while production versions of those units for CP & CN only had the 3.
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Post by andersonwill on Feb 29, 2012 21:50:47 GMT -5
Thank you. That kind of detail is very helpful.
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Post by jakeloyst on Oct 18, 2012 19:32:27 GMT -5
have been thru lots of photos and articles, including some canadian publications, the CN, CP units except for the demonstrators, I believe all have 3 fans, located, 2 and 1. Both railroads only puchased the 1600hp units and there was no need for the 4th fan. The sides of the units did receive different treatments though. on the 16-4, at least two difffernt styles of grills were used and yes, a blank spot when the missing fan was, however on the 16-5 units, the grill work runs from end to end. Not sure if I still have drawings, or just photos, I know this is a late post, for the topic, but let me know if I can help
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Post by andersonwill on Oct 19, 2012 6:58:52 GMT -5
If you manage to find your references, I would be grateful if you would share them with me. Though I've already posted my drawings, I'll correct whatever I need to. Thanks.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jul 29, 2015 6:19:38 GMT -5
Hi I am wondering if anyone can say what the width of the Farr style grilles was on the C-Liners? They look a bit narrower than those you'd see on an EMD F unit. I'm thinking particularly of an NYC unit (if it varied railroad to railroad.) www.rr-fallenflags.org/nyc/nyc6607s.jpgRegards Ben
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