Proto 2000 SD60

[montyvox]

Good morning everyone-

Quick question- I have a Proto 2000 SD60, that I really like, but moves slower than molasses.

Are the gears in the SD60 similar to another builder, or is it just a re-gear with someone else's gears and that's it?

Thanks
Matt

[mrlfan]

I don't know but the older Protos had trucks that were copied from Athearns so maybe the new SD50 or SD60 trucks would swap.
Glenn

[milw199]

The P2K SD60 is geared 18:1. Sort of a Kato clone, but the sideframes just seen excessively wide.

Most Atlas-Kato are 14:1, Athearn and clones 12:1.

Not too much you can do. Maybe Kato or Athearn trucks fit the P2K frame; I haven't looked into this. Would definitely help in the looks department.

On mine I plugged in a Digitrax DH165LO decoder, which takes out all the factory board gobbledygook, and still runs the stock headlights. Runs a bit faster than before, but doesn't really run well with others except for another P2K SD60. TCS now makes a decoder that drops in for these.

[diesel]

@thanks Mike! I thought these moved slower because they had a much heavier weight than everything else, but still the same motor. Seems kinda silly now... gear ratio change sounds much more the culprit, BUT, that must what makes these units excellent pullers!

[montyvox]

Yeah I have the digitrax replacement board/decoder in it now.

The thing can pull the entire house but just at a slow rate of speed, it's crazy.

That's why I've stayed away from their stuff- I like their engines, especially in the looks department, but they run so slow it's too bad.

[m a y o r 79]

I noticed that same problem on my SD60 when I was running it at the National Train show this past July. I had it between two Bachmann Dash 8 drives and they were pushing/pulling the SD60 around the layout. Seems once I had a long enough train behind them it slowed the Bachmanns down and they all ran nice together, but most people dont have the luxury of running a 100+ car train on a home layout.

[sd45longhoodfoward]

you can simulate the the gearing.but it cant simulate the actual pulling power.check into Earnest gears they make them for Athearn and make a huge difference in some of my units.ihave also bought another unit or 2 to make my consist run in sync,this is an issue that really needs to be addressed some how on the running speeds and how they work with other locos in consist both stock and decoder equipped.this is something i have ran into very often trying to consist different makes of locomotives like my athearn AMD 103 aka GE p42 and my atlas b32bwh Amtrak loco night and day the differences that decoders cant fix!!!

[CP_8530]

Unfortunately with those units it's the truck gearing. Removing all that funky diode wiring might make it run a *little* faster, but it won't be worth it as the thing will still run too damn slow to MU with anything other than a P2K SD50/60.

A truck swap might be tricky if the mounts on the Athearn and P2K trucks are different, which they more than likely are. Haven't seen anyone attempt it though. And regearing the existing trucks might prove to be more trouble than its worth.

The earlier Proto stuff all ran about the same speed and had similar gearing. The GP and FA stuff had Athearn clone trucks, the SW's and SD7/9's had Atlas-ish trucks, but they all ran about the same speed (once you chucked the lighting diode circuit that is )

It's when they brought out the U-boats, SD45's, RDC's and SD60's they did the crazy "gear ratio of the month" as some describe it.

Bottom line, you can gut them and run them with other units as dummies, or just run them with their own kind. Putting the Proto shell on an Athearn frame would be the least-trouble way to get a runner that plays nice with others, but you'd still have a perfectly good SD60 drive lying around...

[carlmarsico]

Here's my fix for the P2K SD50/SD60

1) Sell P2K SD50/SD60

2) Use proceeds to buy Athearn SD50/SD60 (this also gets you a better shell in the process)

CJM

[montyvox]

Hah, good response there Carl.

[m a y o r 79]

Yeah but the problems is #1. With the known issues with the Proto SD50/60 who's gonna want to buy them?

[sd45longhoodfoward]

well if you also think in all honesty i would rather have slow power house than a faster wimpy locomotive the balance is really a personal prefrence proto p2k sd 60.s really arent the expensive!and by the time you you regear re truck re wire etc... it would proably be about half the price of another unit.spend a bit more and hook yourself up.just my opinion!hmmmmm what did you say??lol

[carlmarsico]

In regards to my "fix", I have been successful in selling some of my non-CNW (and UP) units. My main beef is the lack of compatibility with other units, but I have no problem running pure SD50/SD60/SD60M lashups with my CNW/UP units where I'll keep them.

[montyvox]

Yeah, but what's funny is, is that I have an SD50 from them, for CSX, and it runs great with my Athearn SD70MAC- they run literally at the same speed, so I don't get it.

It is a new version of the model, so maybe that has something to do with it, but who knows.

[poweredby251]

Since Walthers took over Proto, their new releases have all had a gear ratio that plays well with Athearn/Atlas/Kato, etc.

[carlmarsico]

The problem isn't the speed itself, it's the lack of compatibility with anything that isn't another P2K SD60.

[fgcx1835]

Have had the same problem for years with two Proto 2000 locos, both six-axle, but I've solved it. I tried one of TCS's new LL-8 decoders. TCS advertises that the LL-8 is specifcially made for Proto 2000 products. The results were dramatic. It increased the loco's speed so it now consists well with Atlas, Kato, and Stewart 6-axles. My theory is that the new decoder's electronic architecture sends track power, and more of it, to the motor first before routing it to  other functions. To test it, I removed the LL-8 from the faster engine and installed a DH-123 in it, and then ran it at the same throttle setting as before. It immediately slowed down to its old speed again. I also tried an LL-8 in another Proto SD and got the same results. LL-8's aren't cheap as motor decoders go ($42.00), but this installation has solved the problem easily and without re-gearing the loco's final drive ratio.

[Mark R.]

I'd be willing to bet it's the factory circuit board being the culprit. I just scrapped the circuit boards in an SD60 and an SD60M and installed Loksound decoders. Took very little tweaking to get them to run perfectly with similar six axle Kato engines.

A personal rule of thumb for me is to always scrap the factory board and wire direct.

Mark.