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Post by dak94dav on Apr 28, 2016 17:54:17 GMT -5
I've always liked the look of the SD40-2s with longer than usual noses. The first time I saw a picture of one, it was referred to as a "snoot nose." This is what I've called them ever since. What was the reasoning behind such a long nose? The only ones I've ever seen were Union Pacific, Santa Fe, and some Southern Pacific tunnel motor units. Where these the only railroads to order them?
I would like my protolanced Cotton Belt (independent and not associated with SP in my version of history) to have some of these unique looking units. Would this be appropriate for the Cotton Belt or was this option (and whatever purpose that was behind it) something only a larger railroad would order?
Thanks! Dakota
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deez
Chairman
Midland Belt Railway
Posts: 949
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Post by deez on Apr 28, 2016 18:26:04 GMT -5
I'm pretty sure Cotton Belt had tunnel motors that were snoots. They typically housed radio control equipment. I know KCS SD40-2's had snoots also. The radio equipment was for controlling other units in the consist or helper units further back in the train. There were mothers and receivers.
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Post by Frédéric Bégin on Apr 28, 2016 18:42:00 GMT -5
You are right Mark
SSW, St Louis Southwestern (cotton belt) owned several SD40-2T with 123" snoot nose to accomodate locotrol equipment. The 8322 or 8329 are pretty good example. I encourage you to look at rrpicturearchives.net or espee.railfan.net to gather more photo in the Cotton Belt paint scheme. Also, CPR used to have SD40-2 snoot nosed locomotive so it's not too uncommon to see those kind of engine.
Hope that help
Frederic
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spike
Chairman
They say I can't be Spike anymore, so Mr. Burns it is!
Posts: 561
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Post by spike on Apr 28, 2016 19:16:32 GMT -5
I agree with the fact that 1. The extended nose was for radio gear. 2. The Cotton Belt units had them.
If Cotton Belt was independent of SP, it may have been doubtful that the units had radio gear. The lack of mountain grades on Cotton Belt would have precluded the need for distributed power. The special radiators may not have been needed either, since there are not many tunnels, nor snow sheds in the Midwest/ South Central states. SP ordered all units the same, so any SP or Cotton Belt unit could be used interchangeably, system wide.
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Post by dak94dav on Apr 28, 2016 19:31:56 GMT -5
Thanks guys. My next question was about to be whether or not Locotrol was limited to helper service, but it was just answered lol. I think tunnel motors are mean looking machines, but since I want to model the SSW as a road independent from SP, I thought about modeling a standard SD40-2 with a snoot like Union Pacific or Santa Fe. But with the Cotton Belt lines running through mostly farm land, looks like I'll have to scrap the idea.
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Post by iomalley on Apr 28, 2016 19:52:04 GMT -5
BC Rail SDs had giant sandboxes in them. My dad remembers filling the sandbox on some brand new BCR units at the RH in London, and he had to refill the tower with sand because of the seemingly endless hopper in the nose.
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Post by dak94dav on Apr 28, 2016 20:33:44 GMT -5
BC Rail SDs had giant sandboxes in them. My dad remembers filling the sandbox on some brand new BCR units at the RH in London, and he had to refill the tower with sand because of the seemingly endless hopper in the nose. I bet those guys weighed a few pounds when they were full lol
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Post by mikeinwi on Apr 29, 2016 9:20:22 GMT -5
Interesting, I didn't know what the "snoot" was all about, now I do! This one started out as an undecorated SD40-2T, with the long nose. I still have a couple of the shells left. It's one of them in my avatar. Mike.
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spike
Chairman
They say I can't be Spike anymore, so Mr. Burns it is!
Posts: 561
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Post by spike on Apr 29, 2016 18:28:45 GMT -5
CP had 109" noses on all SD40-2 units numbered 5675 and above. There were also some additional wreck replacements which did too. The 5800 class were leaders, and 5900, and 6000 were remotes (CP called them robots).
As you may see, since switching from the standard length noses, only some ever had radio gear. I don't know why they spent the extra money for long noses, for non Locotrol units. Maybe it was so the units had room for the gear, if more remote control sets were needed.
Although not standard SD40-2s, the 9000 series covered wagons were leaders.
Think about other options which Cotton Belt may have had. They may have lacked dynamic brakes, like most of MP's. They may have had them if pooling power with BN, or UP, on Powder River coal trains. As a fairly flat railway, they may have had more big 4 axle GP40/40-2, U30B/B30-7, or C430s.
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Post by Randy Earle on Apr 29, 2016 22:24:22 GMT -5
Sweet looking freelance unit.
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Post by Frédéric Bégin on Apr 30, 2016 2:09:47 GMT -5
Spike, you hit a delicate subject when trying to sort the CP's SD40, SD40-2, and SD40-2F.
The're not a definitive rule of thumb since they we're modified numerous times, renumbered, outfitted with Locotrol I then Locotrol II. Some units we're converted to robots with windows blanked, some we're bought from other railroads as the CP expanded. It's a topic on it's own. People interested should really try to bought the Canadian Diesel Pictorial Volume One : Canadian Pacific SD40 & SD40-2 from Fred Clark. It cover most if not all the aspect of those iconic engine of the CP railroad.
Nevertheless, too bad that you we're not able to incorporate a snoot nose on your Cotton Belt empire. But I'm sure that you will find another engine that will suit your needs.
Frederic
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Post by tjmfishing on Apr 30, 2016 7:30:04 GMT -5
I always thought it was for an extra large washroom
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Post by dak94dav on Apr 30, 2016 21:19:20 GMT -5
Thanks guys. I suppose I can always just run some pool power from SP, UP, or the Santa Fe if I think I need one bad enough. As for dynamic brakes, most all of my locomotives will be without them. I just can't see a road like Cotton Belt justifying spending the extra cash when they really didn't need them. The only units that might have dynamic brakes will be the newest units on the road's 1986 era....EMD GP60s. And the only reason I've considered them is because I've never seen a GP60 without them lol. Were they standard equipment?
Nice model btw Mike!
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Post by Frédéric Bégin on May 1, 2016 2:13:59 GMT -5
You can see those SD40T-2 with snoot nose so often because it was part of the most sold engine in that era. To be exact, SD40, SD40-2, and those variant where a huge sucess for EMD. And since they where so popular, pieces are still available today from wrecked engine. You can still see them in service today as they are reliable six axles 3000 HP engine.
The approximative 170 snoot nose engine that Southern Pacific Railroad, and its subsidiary Cotton Belt has are equipped with a 4,400-US-gallon fuel tank, contrary to the Rio Grande's version that have regular nose and has a smaller 4,000-US-gallon fuel tank. After merging with Rio Grande, the Southern Pacific and later Union Pacific owned every SD40T-2.
As mentionned above, the need to gather cool air, non polluted by diesel prime mover, has bring that unique design. And with so many tunnel, they where almost anywhere in the railroad system.
Standard equipment, maybe not. But it doesn't suprise me to see a SD40 with a GP60. It remind me switching out some cars. A six axles is great to give you the horsepower, but you need that extra push to build momemtum. SD are geared to give you the most HP with higher speed. GP are geared to give you torque with low speed. So by combining the to engine, you get a perfect combination.
Frederic
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Post by detlef10 on May 2, 2016 12:56:34 GMT -5
Just to pull a little more history into the discussion, the Locotrol equipment was piloted in gutted F7B's, into what was then called "Radio Control Cars." This allowed the railroads to test the equipment without needing to modify an actual loco. The Locotrol equipment would send commands through the MU cable and air signal hoses as needed for the other units to be operated properly. Keep in mind that at that time the idea of a loco set not manned was still pretty radical, and we had a long way to go to get to the mindset of our current DPUs and all. Here is a photo of a BN RCC with, of all things, a Cotton Belt tunnel motor (!): www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=351960&nseq=7Some may wonder why they needed so much space for some radio equipment. Keep in mind this was in the early days of electronic integration, and even PC boards still contained discrete components. The "Dash-2" with their modular electronics was nothing like the electronics of today. Heck, our cell phones have more computing power than the Apollo spacecraft. As such, a fair amount of space was needed for the radio equipment. No, the RCC's were not stuffed with equipment. But a standard loco nose would not have enough space, hence, the snoot. On an aside, I did a modeling project of an RCC back when they were still rolling on the rails. Crazy idea, I thought at the time....
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spike
Chairman
They say I can't be Spike anymore, so Mr. Burns it is!
Posts: 561
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Post by spike on May 2, 2016 17:44:03 GMT -5
In the noses of the robot were also magnet valves to control brake functions. These are integrated with the Wabco Epic, and New York Air Brake/Knorr electronic brake valves.
The other day I saw a site about some museum's GP9. It had a 4 channel Motorola radio. The head with the channel selector, volume. hand set, and speaker were on the control stand. The main guts were in the nose.
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Post by detlef10 on May 2, 2016 21:50:09 GMT -5
FWIW, here is a photo of my freelanced RCC: Keep in mind this was built in the early 80's, so technique has come a long way since then. :-)
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