osrr
Trainmaster
Posts: 130
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Post by osrr on Nov 24, 2015 22:56:45 GMT -5
Here's an idea but, I don't know if it'll work.
Take an Athearn GP49 body and mount it to an SD40-2 walkway and frame.
Essentially making a very late production SD39-2. Similar to the "Phase III" GP39-2s that the MKT bought.
Would this work without having to add sheet between the cab and long hood? I unfortunately have neither of these items to test but, maybe some here does.
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dtinut
Chairman
Modeling the DT&I of the 60's & 70's
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Post by dtinut on Nov 24, 2015 23:18:21 GMT -5
Here's an idea but, I don't know if it'll work. Take an Athearn GP49 body and mount it to an SD40-2 walkway and frame. Essentially making a very late production SD39-2. Similar to the "Phase III" GP39-2s that the MKT bought. Would this work without having to add sheet between the cab and long hood? I unfortunately have neither of these items to test but, maybe some here does. Hmm, typically, an SD unit has a larger clean air room behind the cab, than a GP unit, as it has more traction motors to cool. When I kitbashed SD38's from Kato SD40's, I cut the Kato shell, right behind the clean air room/blower, basically removing everything after the blower housing, and replaced it with the long hood cut in same place from an Atlas GP38. I don't know much about the SD39-2 (since I don't believe they actually existed, but that is what I would do. Except using the SD40-2 body, and the long hood from the GP49. Sounds like a fun project. Good Luck! Brian
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osrr
Trainmaster
Posts: 130
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Post by osrr on Nov 24, 2015 23:44:15 GMT -5
Yea, the SD39-2 never exsisted. Nothing past the SD39 was ever produced. Although I think EMD did catalogue the Dash 2 variant.
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deez
Chairman
Midland Belt Railway
Posts: 949
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Post by deez on Nov 26, 2015 13:21:45 GMT -5
It was catalogued just like the SD49 but even if it wasn't, EMD was the kind of company that would put anything together to accommodate a railroads specific needs. The SDL39 is a great example of this. If you wanted correct door arrangements then yes, the Athearn 39X/49 hood would be the right choice. The clean air room is the compromise. Since the 12cyl. engine is pushed back on the frame and after phase I 39-2's drops to 8 engine compartment doors, that spacing will have to be made up wile including the extra length of "SD" model clean air room. Don't forget the smaller inertial filter grills that make it look like an even larger push back of space lol. This is the reason I think late phase SD39-2's, SD39X's and SD49's according to their very late 70's/early 80's build date would take on the resemblance of the SD40X/SD50 with the dynamics behind the cab and instead of 11 engine compartment doors it would be 9. And also sticking with the radiator section of the GP length. Just like KCS's SD40X in design. My idea of a phase III SD39-2/39X would be on a 68'10" frame like the standard SD's and the 40X demos of KCS. SD49's I want to do the phase I SD50 longer frame with thicker sills and the rounded blower hump. Then SD59 I've got the gears really turning on this one. Study the hood differences between the GP59 and GP60's and you'll see that they are more individually unique than you might first think. Now throw it on a late SD50 frame. Idk about you guys but the SD59, I think is the bees knees of all of these fantasy phases lol.
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osrr
Trainmaster
Posts: 130
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Post by osrr on Nov 28, 2015 1:08:57 GMT -5
I always liked the idea of an SD49 to. My though on those were to use the SD50S frame (wasn't this an SD40-2 frame?) and a carbody style of the SD50. Then obviously, the 12cyl 645 (at 2800HP) and just two radiator fans.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Nov 28, 2015 1:48:13 GMT -5
I always liked the idea of an SD49 to. My though on those were to use the SD50S frame (wasn't this an SD40-2 frame?) and a carbody style of the SD50. Then obviously, the 12cyl 645 (at 2800HP) and just two radiator fans. Yes sir that is correct sd50s built on sd40-2 frame
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Post by MitchGDRMCo on Nov 28, 2015 2:22:33 GMT -5
Deez, I'm looking into building SD59s myself. My plan is to take a SD60 shell and cut out 2 engine compartment doors per side and shorten the radiator to have only 2 fans. Would probably use a SD40-2 chassis tho to get the shorter length.
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deez
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Midland Belt Railway
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Post by deez on Nov 28, 2015 10:51:32 GMT -5
Mitchell, I kinda doubt the SD59 will have 2 radiator fans as the GP59 has 3. What you do have as an advantage to making the hood shorter is the use of the GP59s radiator length. Production SD50's and 60's have longer radiators than their GP counterparts. On12cyl SD locomotives like 39X's, 49's and 59's I believe EMD would use the GP radiator cores instead of the larger type on the 16cyl. models. Now, if you don't mind a potential incorrect door arrangement then you can just remove a couple doors from the engine room 11 door set. I would leave the very last door just befor the radiator though. For the SD59 I tend to have the belief that it would be built on the standard SD50/60 frame, and much like the revisions to 40 series EMD's having porches because SD45's 20cyl needed more frame, would also be built with porches since the hood length is shorter than the frame. Again, now another reasoning could be put on the table too. It's the fact that EMD built SD40-2's all the way up to '86 (I think maybe it was '84?) and that would be right into GP59 production. So EMD was still building locomotives with 68'10" frames. So you could say a model like SD49's and 59's could very well be slapped on top of that shorter frame also. Being built with or without the dynamics behind the cab could be done on these frames too! There's so much up in the air as to how they could have been built and the ultimate frame length. I'm just kind of leaning towards the thought that EMD would use their newest standards for a completely new model.
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deez
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Midland Belt Railway
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Post by deez on Nov 28, 2015 11:03:09 GMT -5
If any of you gentlemen are looking for more ideas and info on this subject you should check out the SD49 idea and collaboration build thread on page 2 in the upcoming projects section. There's 5 pages and allot of guys chiming in with some cool ideas on these builds. Plus some basic drawings I had put together.
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osrr
Trainmaster
Posts: 130
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Post by osrr on Nov 28, 2015 12:05:47 GMT -5
I thought about this a little more. For Ho scale. Take an Athearn SD40-2 frame (Kato would work to). Take an Athearn GP49 and use the long hood from just behind the cab (in front of air intake). Take an SD50, and use from just behind the Dynamics forward. Set them up where there's no "porches" and fill in the blank space with styrene sheet.
Might be odd looking in a way (think Phase II GP39-2). I think you'd end up with a believable SD49.
EDIT: Also, would it be necessary to lengthen the Inertial Intakes? (similar to the SD40-2)
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pacbelt
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Building Layout #11!! ;)
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Post by pacbelt on Nov 28, 2015 13:54:50 GMT -5
Not to get TOO far off topic here.... deez, GOOD explanation of the various EMD types! I often wondered about the SD40-2s "porches". I figured that the reason for all that overhang, was so it could carry a large enough fuel tank, to be a viable long range road diesel. Your theory of sharing frames for economic reasons,is way mmore plausible!! ~ Carmine
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deez
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Midland Belt Railway
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Post by deez on Nov 28, 2015 14:15:01 GMT -5
Carmine, when EMD built their first 40 series demos they sat on the SD35 frame of the time. Just like the SD40X in my sig. That's what an SD40 would have looked like if EMD never came up with the 20cyl SD45. So when the wanted to build demos for the SD45 they obviously had to build them on a longer frame. So instead of having 2 different frames; one for SD40's and one for SD45's they just used the longer SD45 frame for both models which produced porches on the SD40 because of the shorter hood length. It worked out very well for EMD then. I think it could certainly carry over to the longer frames of the 49/50 series also.
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Post by MitchGDRMCo on Nov 28, 2015 20:28:48 GMT -5
EMD shared the frame for the SD38/39/40/45 and again between the Dash 2 models.
As for my SD59 I'd prefer to use the shorter frame, you've given me a good idea for the long hood however (GP59 from the turbo housing back, SD60 from there forward). Should result in something close to what would really have been made.
Doing some googling it doesn't appear anyone did a GP59.....might have to be a cut down GP60 hood.
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osrr
Trainmaster
Posts: 130
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Post by osrr on Nov 28, 2015 21:16:31 GMT -5
EMD shared the frame for the SD38/39/40/45 and again between the Dash 2 models. As for my SD59 I'd prefer to use the shorter frame, you've given me a good idea for the long hood however (GP59 from the turbo housing back, SD60 from there forward). Should result in something close to what would really have been made. Doing some googling it doesn't appear anyone did a GP59.....might have to be a cut down GP60 hood. Yea, no one has done a GP59 so far. I wouldn't think it'd be to hard starting off with a GP60.
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deez
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Midland Belt Railway
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Post by deez on Nov 28, 2015 22:11:48 GMT -5
At first glance the GP60 and 59 look very much the same. The 59 of course has the engine room pushed further back with 8 engine doors instead of 10 as seen on the 60's. The clean air room is lengthened from this pushback to fill most of the difference. What makes up the rest is the radiator compartment being longer also. GP59's also have their own unique radiator door arrangement also. The SD60 has the most similar radiator door arrangement. The first 4 doors I think are exactly the same dimensions and arranged the same. I would custom make the SD59 radiator section from the SD60 since any late GP model would still not have the right radiator section. (All geeps would have incorrect doors and especially are too short in length). Actually you reall don't even need to bother with aquiring a GP49 shell to use. All of the needed hood parts can be picked up from Cannon and also are right there on the SD60. Allot of people would probably never notice it but the engine room door arrangement on SD50/60 EMD's is exactly opposite of the standard -2 10 door arrangement. PLUS one wider door at the end making a total of 11 doors. But of the 10 engine doors if you put them facing a mirror you would see the -2 arrangement. Sooooooo..... Any other shell used even if its a shell with an 8 door engine room. It pretty much will be wrong. You're better off surgically removing first door in both 5 door sets and leaving the 11th alone altogether. Then it should be correct. When you look at the engine room door arrangement you'll see what I mean by there being two similar sets of five doors. One set then another of the same arrangement right after. Its basically how anybody would create one of the older 8 engine door GP39-2's back in the day when there was no production model.
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Post by MitchGDRMCo on Nov 28, 2015 22:50:20 GMT -5
Sounds like what I was thinking RE door arrangements.
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Post by SD39dash2 on Dec 9, 2015 23:12:21 GMT -5
I'm actually making the SD39-2 a staple of my freelanced railroad. I made a thread about it. I included some drawings of a couple 39-2 phases and an SD49 (on the SD40-2 bedplate). My D&NO threadI have started working on a few of these from old Athearn BB SD40-2s. I initially had three basic phases of their construction, based on the way SD38-2s were made, but I liked the older 38/39 radiator section, so I made it so the first six of the initial order were built with the older radiators. For example... Thus, the phases I came up with now shake out like this: Phase 1a- 81" short hood, split chicken wire radiators with wide fan spacing, 2-3-3-2 engine room door arrangement, small front anticlimber. Phase 1b- 81" short hood, single chicken wire radiators with close fan spacing, 2-3-3-2 engine room doors, small front anticlimber. Phase 2- 88" short hood, corrugated radiator grilles, 3 feet added to clean air room, engine room moved rearward 3 ft, 2-3-3 engine room doors, large front anticlimber. Phase 3a- 88" short hood, corrugated radiator grilles, etc...plus "Q" radiator fans and exhaust silencer. Phase 3b- Same as above with angled traction motor blower housing.
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osrr
Trainmaster
Posts: 130
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Post by osrr on Dec 10, 2015 3:04:35 GMT -5
Very nice.
Far as the real 39-2s go, PhII and "PhIII" (MKT in GP49 body) are my favorite.
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deez
Chairman
Midland Belt Railway
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Post by deez on Dec 10, 2015 20:06:47 GMT -5
Those phases should come out lookin good. Make sure you go with the shorter inertial grills also. My favorite 39-2 phase is the Ib which only Santa Fe owned. They are the only units built with wide spaced fans and split corrugated grills.
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Post by jmlaboda on Dec 10, 2015 21:08:11 GMT -5
I wonder myself if EMD would have used a shorter frame. GE did it with the C32-8s for Conrail and the B32-8s for Norfolk Southern... would make for an interesting locomotive but you have to take into consideration other details that would be common at the time when the units would be built.
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