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Post by Mark R. on Mar 20, 2014 16:51:23 GMT -5
No, this isn't a question of how to fix it, but how to control it. We've all had dullcoat blush on us on occasion, but what if we purposely wanted the dullcoat to blush ? I came up with this amazing effect one day just by accident when my dullcoat blushed on me. I want to repeat it and have spent the last four hours trying, and end up with nothing but a perfectly clear flat finish ! Under what circumstances could I expect to get this blush on purpose ?  Mark. |
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Post by Packer on Mar 20, 2014 17:36:06 GMT -5
I think exposure to alcohol will do it
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Post by Mark R. on Mar 20, 2014 18:16:41 GMT -5
Didn't have alcohol anywhere near this one. It was dullcoat thinned with Testors thinner, sprayed on one wet coat and hit it with a hair-dryer and voila ! Try as I might using the same bottle of thinned dullcoat, I can't get it to happen again, let alone control it.
Mark.
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Post by tjmfishing on Mar 20, 2014 18:19:01 GMT -5
No, no....do not expose to alcohol. It will turn snow white on you. I found this out the hard way on an Irving tank car I did as well as my prized RS-18 3624 that I built. I had them at the back of the bench and splattered some 70% on them and now there are little spots down the sides of each model.
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Post by Mark R. on Mar 20, 2014 18:43:29 GMT -5
I've been experimenting trying to replicate this phenominon all day. I even tried overspraying with straight alcohol .... not even a spot of white after it evaporated.
When you don't want it, it happens - when you do - perfect finish every time ! LOL
Mark.
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Post by iomalley on Mar 20, 2014 20:17:51 GMT -5
That's true. The alcohol exposes the talc in the dullcote, but if you don't shake the sh^t out of it first, you don't get any talc. Maybe you had a half-shake can with some errant alcohol sprayed on it?? That RI looks fantastic by the way!! I've used this technique quite a bit, and you can control the amount of talc by washing off some of the blushing with mineral spirits. Of course, you can't touch it with oily fingers ever again...  Taylor, just spray the model again with dullcote, the spots will disappear. |
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Post by Mark R. on Mar 20, 2014 20:31:24 GMT -5
I used the bottled dull coat through my airbrush - it WAS mixed well. One single coat, then hit it with the hair-dryer.
In my experimenting today, I even tried the alcohol after the fact and couldn't get even a SPOT of white ! (?) How did you get that much white on your GT boxcar ? I can deal with too much, but I can't get ANY at this point.
Mark.
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dtinut
Chairman
Modeling the DT&I of the 60's & 70's
Posts: 661
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Post by dtinut on Mar 20, 2014 20:43:27 GMT -5
Well, dullcoat is a bit on the persnickety side, and will do some odd things, with alcohol exposure, and also if there is high moisture in the air.
I was once taught how to use this to advantage with weathering.
Spray on the dullcoat, then using a big soft brush, wash some alcohol on it, and it will blush/fade.
The more you do, the more it seems to fade/blush. You can reverse the effect - spray some more dullcoat over the model, and it will reverse the action.
I did this once as a clinic at my train club, and when I did it a third time to show how it works, the spray bomb can of dullcoat really put a heavy coat onto the model. It was so thick with the stuff, it lifted almost all the lettering off a Walther hicube boxcar - like a decal. Wish I could have saved it like a decal, but it was time to go, and I ended up just stripping the whole model later, as the lettering slide down the side of the car.
Regards,
Brian
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Post by iomalley on Mar 20, 2014 21:43:07 GMT -5
I use Testor's dullcote in the rattle can, I have found the testors bottle stuff useless for knocking down any sheen because I suspect it has very little talc in it. Don't be scared off by the rattle can, it lays down a nice finish...if not applied heavy. I applied the oil paints over the blush on the GT car and the follow up spirit wash streaking doesn't attack the talc on a single pass of the brush, but 3rd 4th 5th passes start to wear off the talc.  This is a U boat that I wanted to depict an 'in and out of storage' scenario late in its career. It was a fog of alcohol on the top surfaces, having hit the whole model with testor's rattle can dullcote. |
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Post by Mark R. on Mar 20, 2014 21:53:00 GMT -5
UPDATE ....
Still experimenting - Added half a teaspoon of baby powder (spray booth smells nice !) to the mix .... success .... kinda ....
Two engines shells hit with this new mix got the frosting every time. So the key is the paint needs a higher ratio of talc. The problem with the baby powder is that it is too coarse. As fine as it appears, when dry on the model, it still appears like particles. Subsequent passes of the same mix gradually took away the effect until it was all gone - presumably getting burried under the successive coats of finish.
Sooooo .... My next step is to decant the finish from a bottle of dullcoat that has settled, leaving a higher ratio of talc to finish and see how that works. FWIW I don't use actual Dull-Cote but rather the Model Master Flat finish which on its own works really well. I quit using Dull-Cote years ago. At this point, I'm thinking the bottle I used on the Rock Island geep had been thinned so many times, much of the original finish was gone leaving a higher than normal talc content.
I believe I'm on the right path now ....
Mark.
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Post by m a y o r 79 on Mar 21, 2014 6:06:57 GMT -5
Ill be interested to hear what your final ratios end up being, it definately gives a nice weathering finish. Definately sounds like your on the right track though. I would imagine decanting the finish from a fresh bottle will be a slow process to get the right talc left. You said the bottle you used for the Rock Island was heavily thinned. Would separating out a new bottle into 2 and thinning each down to 50% be easier? Im thinking for those of us who want to try this once you figure out the ratios for us all  |
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Post by tjmfishing on Mar 21, 2014 6:53:37 GMT -5
Taylor, just spray the model again with dullcote, the spots will disappear. You're a lifesaver. You know that that RS-18 is my single favorite engine for many reasons and possibly more important was that the Irving car is for somebody else. I'll have to give that a go as nothing I have tried has worked thus far. |
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Post by Mark R. on Mar 21, 2014 11:40:41 GMT -5
Ill be interested to hear what your final ratios end up being, it definately gives a nice weathering finish. Definately sounds like your on the right track though. I would imagine decanting the finish from a fresh bottle will be a slow process to get the right talc left. You said the bottle you used for the Rock Island was heavily thinned. Would separating out a new bottle into 2 and thinning each down to 50% be easier? Im thinking for those of us who want to try this once you figure out the ratios for us all The thinning ratio appears to be irrelevant - it's the amount of finish in the mix that prevents the problem from happening. I was able to pour off about 2/3 of the clear separated finish from a new settled bottle and then thinned the remaining mixture down for spraying using Testors enamel thinner. I was able to get the white blushing time after time, however, it wasn't blotching like the RI geep, but rather an even all over white haze. My mixture originally was sprayed straight over the factory finish of the RI unit, so there may have been something on the surface that created the randomness. Overspraying with some "regular" mix dull coat doesn't add any more white haze, but will begin to make what is there gradually disappear leaving that more random look. Still a work in progress, but it is progressing .... Mark. |
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Post by Mark R. on Mar 21, 2014 16:55:46 GMT -5
I think I'm getting the hang of it. Got a decent base fade ....  Mark. |
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Post by iomalley on Mar 22, 2014 8:24:45 GMT -5
That looks fantastic Mark!
Another (obvious) point to add, I've had zero success with doing this fade on anything but factory painted models due to it making decal film more obvious.
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Post by tjmfishing on Mar 22, 2014 8:38:30 GMT -5
I think I'm getting the hang of it. Got a decent base fade .... Mark. How'd you do that? I've got a bunch of RS-11 shells I'd like to mess around with this and weathering with washes on before I strip them to make RS-18's |
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Post by bbrunell on Mar 22, 2014 21:54:41 GMT -5
Mark, love the L&HR unit. Those fetch a hefty price on evilbay. They are pretty rare and in high demand. I just picked up another two weeks ago....
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Post by Mark R. on Mar 23, 2014 22:32:20 GMT -5
Finished and assembled. I'm happy with the results ....  Mark. |
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Post by Randy Earle on Mar 24, 2014 11:23:07 GMT -5
Mark, that C420 is drool material. I'd like to see more. |
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Post by icghogger on Mar 24, 2014 12:04:10 GMT -5
Mark, that C420 is drool material. I'd like to see more. "Drool material"........so THAT'S how Mark got it to look so good..........yes, let's see more!! |
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