Auto rack train

[navy4422]

Okay another update, I have approval to start but I have to submit a track plan first (First time using XTrackCAD) what do you guys think?

[railroadjeep]

I like the plan, looks like some good operational ideas. But am I reading it right, are those 12" radius curves? If your planning on running autoracks, I'd suggest much broader curves. I seem to recall Walthers specifiying 22" as the minimum radius their racks can use. You should try and go as wide as you can, auto racks are very long cars and pushing and pulling them while switching the ramp out can lead to derailments with tight curves.

I'd also suggest getting rid of some of those reverse curves you've created with you yard ladder for the loading tracks. Take a look at this idea I've attached. While there are still reverse curves, there's not as many. I can't see on your plan, but the bigger the turnouts the better. The quick plan I attached is using #6 turnouts.

[railroadjeep]

While this isn't a plant, it's just an regional unloading facilty, this is a facilty that BNSF operates and I've switched it many times.

Here it is in Google: maps.google.com/maps?q=47.447782,+-122.234370

I you look to the south, thats the yard where all the inbound & outbound auto racks are setout/picked up. We pull the usually auto racks from the auto facilty, then shove down the lead into the yard. We do the opposite for spotting, pull the loads from the yard, then shove around the curve and down into the facilty to spot them up.

The tricky part with spotting loads is the trains arrive with M2 and M3 (bi-level and tri-level) mixed in the train, as well as the cars being loading with the vehicles facing north or south. So before we can spot the cars, we have to sort out the bi and tri levels, and further sort them based off which direction the vehicles inside them are facing. So having bi's and tri's in your train can make switching a bit more fun.

[ladderpipe]

I'm with jeep. That "ballon" track is gonna be awfully tight. I would probably nix it if I were you

[navy4422]

yeah Im new to the xtrackcad but it will be fixed overtime this a first concept design to get my idea out of my head the radius will be adjusted to as smooth as possible but the loop will have to stay due to ops (may just be used to turn engines around and not have the autoracks on it) I'll post pictures trying to explain in a bit

Edit here is the revised plan (Note the autoracks will not be going past the edge of the purple rails)



Edit: Also the closest yard is a long ways away Check out the following post for my ops idea

[navy4422]

This works perfect for my ops requirements which calls for 20 autoracks (yard has a max capacity of 18 a little modding could alloy up to 23 -25) Starting out with at least max train length in the load yard(9 or 10), the operation would be:
1)5 auto parts cars into the load dock,
2)Cut engine and have it loop around and stop at the end of the loop.
3)Next train of empties (10) comes into the center line and goes till the engines are just past the purple rail start then cut the engines and have them loop until they are in the siding north of the Incoming Truck Lot
4) Auto parts engine is then clear to grabs its load (engine now on the old end of the train)and head back out
5) Autorack loco's move to the diagonal to the left of plant 2
6)Switcher starts grabbing full autoracks(uses siding where loco's just were to pull forward and then reverse to the Upper part of the turn around and goes and gets more until the train (10) is complete
7)then it goes onto the siding and the auto rack locos reverse and grab the now full auto racks and leaves
8), assuming 8 minutes until auto part return, it should be able to enter now and go to its track but the engine stays on until the empties have cleared
9)The switcher now grabs the 3 empty autoracks that are on the far left and takes them from the train (should clear the yard switch and takes them into the yard repeat on all but the final where 4 are brought in
10)the auto rack train finishes pulling in and loco cuts and goes to end of loop
11) the 4 cars will require going out to the road crossing (at plant entrance and then reverse in to load.
12)Rinse and repeat.

This is the idea that should work out well.

[Packer]

I read somewhere that autorack facitilies have a loop nearby so the cars are driven off a certain way.

the way the track plan is now with the really tight radius, the only thing that'd look halfway decent on it is a trackmobile. You could increase the radius if you If you ditch the finished assembly lot. I've been to the Hyundai plant in Mongomery twice, and they just drove the cars straight to the loading area when done.

It could also help if you moved the loading tracks up and to the right. You could also gain some more track length.

I'll try a rough sketch of what I'm talking about later.

[navy4422]

The line moved indicating the edge (fixed now, will appear in the next update)I cannot move north of the 4' mark. I'm working on a better sketch indicating locations. The loop stays and works for my intention (turning around for the locomotives only, no autoracks or auto parts cars go past the start of the tight curves) I see everyones points about it but as long as the engines take it thats all I need since the autoracks wont go on it (next picture will show this)

The yard will move to the northwest a little though

Thanks for the suggestion about the finished lot thought, if the engines cant take the curve then this will help a lot

I also added a turnout for the switcher on the diagonal to smooth the operations

Sept 22, 2012 14:01:52 GMT -5 railroadjeep said:

The tricky part with spotting loads is the trains arrive with M2 and M3 (bi-level and tri-level) mixed in the train, as well as the cars being loading with the vehicles facing north or south. So before we can spot the cars, we have to sort out the bi and tri levels, and further sort them based off which direction the vehicles inside them are facing. So having bi's and tri's in your train can make switching a bit more fun.

I thought about this and having dedicated bi/tri loading tracks should fix this and no cars are unloaded here so direction shouldnt be a problem

[slowfreight]

Turning power isn't super common at prototype facilities. I've seen one major terminal that turned back-to-back locos around a balloon track instead of just swapping ends, but there's no award for wedging more track into the facility. I'd encourage you to have a runaround track for the power somewhere on the layout and shove the cuts in. Long shove moves can be unrealistic, and if long enough, you might even keep an old caboose as a shoving platform. Curves 24" and less just don't look that good except on industrial spurs.

BTW, the direction of cars only matters at an UNloading facility. The one I worked with just made sure that all the cars in a given cut were loaded in the same direction and could position unloading ramps at either end of the cut as needed.

[navy4422]

imgur.com/a/3gh1S#0 << for ops walk through, also

The push would be about 5 minutes at highspeed (not scaled time) so I think it would look bad and I would like to keep the turn around to simplify things and This is designed for back to backs on the auto racks and parts but more and likely I will run 2 on the autoracks and 1 on the parts

[railroadjeep]

Sept 23, 2012 16:33:32 GMT -5 slowfreight said:

Long shove moves can be unrealistic, and if long enough, you might even keep an old caboose as a shoving platform.

How are long shove moves unrealistic? I can think of at least 3 shove moves I've made this week that were over 1 mile, one that was almost 2 miles. None of which we had the benefit of a shoving platform to ride upon.

[navy4422]

In scale it would be about 50 to 75 miles if I remember right which just doesnt seem right ( I just have never seen it)

[acsoosub]

Sept 23, 2012 11:07:47 GMT -5 navy4422 said:

The loop stays and works for my intention (turning around for the locomotives only, no autoracks or auto parts cars go past the start of the tight curves)

Not at 12" radius it won't. (This is HO right?)

12" radius won't turn anything much bigger than a GE 44-ton switcher. Your big mainline power will NOT navigate that curve. And if you're running engines in pairs you don't need to turn it, just run around and the other unit then becomes the lead in the opposite direction.

[mgwsy]

Sept 23, 2012 23:51:49 GMT -5 railroadjeep said:

Sept 23, 2012 16:33:32 GMT -5 slowfreight said:

Long shove moves can be unrealistic, and if long enough, you might even keep an old caboose as a shoving platform.

How are long shove moves unrealistic? I can think of at least 3 shove moves I've made this week that were over 1 mile, one that was almost 2 miles. None of which we had the benefit of a shoving platform to ride upon.

I remember doing shove moves of 7 - 10 miles daily to save time.

[mgwsy]

Shoot me the size of the buldings and the area you have to work with and I can see if I can help you tweak your plan. Also have you thought about maybe making your plant a backdrop building instead?

[navy4422]

Okay well the curve is gone I found out that I could add a siding that I didnt think I was able to add so the shove issue and all that are gone working on a plan update now

The plant is in thought now but I cant backdrop it as there is no walls around this its in the observation window

[slowfreight]

Sept 23, 2012 23:51:49 GMT -5 railroadjeep said:

Sept 23, 2012 16:33:32 GMT -5 slowfreight said:

Long shove moves can be unrealistic, and if long enough, you might even keep an old caboose as a shoving platform.

How are long shove moves unrealistic? I can think of at least 3 shove moves I've made this week that were over 1 mile, one that was almost 2 miles. None of which we had the benefit of a shoving platform to ride upon.

Sorry....typo...meant they ARE realistic Which is why I brought up the topic of shove platforms...I was thinking of some of the multi-mile ones I've seen.

[navy4422]

Well to settle the shove question its a no at all due to de railing even at a crawl

[acsoosub]

Sept 24, 2012 20:15:06 GMT -5 navy4422 said:

Well to settle the shove question its a no at all due to de railing even at a crawl

Which means you have serious track or car problems (or both - but track is the most likely to be the issue). If you want things to work reliably you simply can't afford to be sloppy with the track.

Pushing a string of cars should not really be an operational issue. You have to be able to push cars in order to switch them into the loading/unloading tracks.

[navy4422]

Sept 25, 2012 11:25:51 GMT -5 acsoosub said:

Sept 24, 2012 20:15:06 GMT -5 navy4422 said:

Well to settle the shove question its a no at all due to de railing even at a crawl

Which means you have serious track or car problems (or both - but track is the most likely to be the issue). If you want things to work reliably you simply can't afford to be sloppy with the track.

Pushing a string of cars should not really be an operational issue. You have to be able to push cars in order to switch them into the loading/unloading tracks.

Yeah, no.... Auto racks are very light and pushing them just doesnt work for 10 at a time (main issue was on any curve with a positive grade(radius is 30 on the shortest one)) It was fixed the second I added weight to some of the cars but that brought some power problems with it (the engines needed more weight to get enough traction at points) its fine with lower numbers but not in that high and the track is more than fine the pushing wasnt an issue in switching but on the mains where there are grades.

Regardless nothing will be shoved outside of the yard so this doesn't matter anymore. I shudder to think what would happen on a shove up our helix.